In other news

[Rapscallion]

I stopped off for some groceries the other day and passed by a group of people hanging around by the store.

Not once did I have to reach for a weapon to defend myself.

Damn, it's good to live in a place where the culture has achieved puberty and people aren't suspicious of each other all the time.

Brought to you by the 'anecdotes must be data, right?' campaign.

Rapscallion

[insertNameHere]

Raps, I'm wondering do you guys have low income housing and violent gangs in your area?

[Rapscallion]

Yes, yes we do. However, the posts put up here to defend gun ownership are almost always defending onseself at the fuel stations, or at the ATM, or other ordinary activities.

By 'my area' do you refer to my immediate geographical area, or the entirety of the UK, a country that would fit several times over into most US states? I actually live on an estate designed for people who were on low incomes. Violent gangs, not so much - groups of teenagers hanging around near the shops happens, but they don't really harass people most of the time.

Besides, the violent gangs (usually inner city areas) are rarely armed with guns, what with them not being openly available over here.

Rapscallion

[Lace Neil Singer]

Same. I actually live fairly near Chatham; the birthplace of chavs. Never once been threatened with a gun.

[Ginger Tea]

With youth's in the UK you will either be assaulted by a knife or a piss poor vocabulary, luckily for me its always the latter and very rarely where I live now, more so oop norf

[Canarr]

Brought to you by the 'anecdotes must be data, right?' campaign.

Rapscallion

Thanks for the laugh, Raps.

[DrFaroohk]

I realize that anecdotes aren't necessarily data, but one can hardly discount them, yes? I mean, if one makes an argument that guns are necessary because the ATM is the most dangerous place in the world, and Raps argues that it's clearly not the case as he just went out and about and didn't get hurt, its a valid point yes?

[Canarr]

The point - at least, as I see it - is that anecdotes prove nothing beyond, "That happened to this guy that one time." Yet I often read arguments following the line of, "We need the option to carry guns [HERE] because that one time someone was robbed someplace." That's an anecdote, not data. I'm sure that for every anecdote Person A brings of someone successfully using his legally carried handgun to prevent a robbery ("proving" that carrying a gun saves you from being robbed), Person B can bring an anecdote of someone never getting a chance to draw said gun because he was clobbered over the head first ("proving" that carrying a gun is of no help at all when being robbed).

Neither conclusion would be correct, because an anecdote isn't data and thus, isn't proof.

Now, I know that's an old argument, but still: I live in Germany. Getting a permit for a gun is difficult here, even if you just want one to store guns at home to use in a shooting club. Getting a permit for Concealed Carry - or any Carry at all - is basically impossible, unless you're military, police, or private security - and private security with guns is very, very rare.

Still, I don't feel unsafe. I don't wish I could carry a gun whereever I go. And as far as I know, we have a lot less murders per capita than the US - so, being without guns doesn't seem to be all that dangerous.

@Raps: sorry if I derailed your thread. Feel free to move or delete.

[Rapscallion]

I wouldn't delete or move unless there was serious reason - for the most part I'm here as is everyone else to debate. Feel free to back up or attack my points as you feel.

If any moderator here is acting in official capacity, we'll make sure you're aware of it.

In the meantime, you hit my point squarely on the head.

Rapscallion

[insertNameHere]

What about having a spare tire? Most if not all cars have a spare tire in them, just in case something happens. I mean, does anyone really WANT to have to use there spare tire? No it is there in an emergency and for peace of mind you could easily not have a jack or a spare tire and go years without incident. The same goes for mine desire to carry a handgun for personal protection 99.9999% of the time I am in no immediate danger to my life. But if I end up needing it, the extra weight I am carrying around just began justified. I hope I don't ever need to shoot someone to protect myself, but if I need to I will. And for the record I can chance my tire in under 5 minutes in crappy weather because I have practiced doing it incase I run into the situation where I need to use it, I don't have to sit there and be like "What does this piece do again?"

For the most part America is not the wild west where you end up in a shoot out as an average citizen on a weekly basis, some of the cops do but that really depends on your area.

Since the UK, doesn't have firearms readily available, how many people there carry Pepperspray or knife?

[Andara Bledin]

I know someone from another forum who has concluded that the anecdotal data that he hasn't had an accident yet means that it's perfectly safe for him to text while driving. This is an otherwise fairly intelligent young man, and about half of the rest of the forum expressed interest in smacking some sense into him.

This is also the reasoning whereby drunk drivers think it's just peachy fine for them to drive drunk because they've done it before and not had an accident.

^-.-^

[Rapscallion]

In other news, I drove to work and back today, and I didn't need to change my tyre!

Indeed, I made a trip of over 600 miles the other week and didn't once need to change one! Yay for being me!

Rapscallion

[DrFaroohk]

Yeah, but this one, I DID need a tire. Actually I've needed tires lots of times.

And I know how to spell tire! Learn to speak the REAL English - the way Americans do!

[IDrinkaRum]

In 2 years, we've had to get 2 new tires 2 times. (Did that make sense?)

In the Bridge of Wood city I live in, there is an area in downtown that people are highly recommended to avoid and try their hardest not to live there. Someone always knows someone whose mother's father's aunt's cousin's illegitimate child's father twice removed got burgled, stabbed, almost killed, and set on fire. But every week, in the "crime" section of the local newspaper, there is always a beating or a stabbing or a robbing happening in that section of town. Anecdotal evidence meets actual happenings.

[HYHYBT]

I was on my fourth car before having to use the spare tire (or tyre), but I was no less glad to have one when I *did* need it.

I think one difference on guns is distance; there being virtually none at all might (might) work well for cities and towns, but the US has some areas with a very low population density where, while it's not likely anything will happen, if it does you're pretty well on your own, and no witnesses even to say there was a strange car in the area. (And of course in such places there are wild animals to consider as well.) But if guns are available for those people, they're available to everyone else too.