Fear and Silence

[Ladeeda]

I was assaulted last week. A comparatively small thing, but one that terrified me and destroyed all trust and respect for the person who did it.

I found out today that this person has gone too far with other people before. But no one ever said anything. I had no idea, thought it was an anomaly. Didn't want to cause drama.

Which is probably what everyone else thought, too. Fear of being ostracized by the community for speaking out against someone hailed as the party kink.

And these are ADULTS! Late 20s, 30s, 40s, more. Not college or high school.

I ended up posting a long journal entry on the message board where these people stay connected, and have every expectation that I'm about to lose 90% of the friends I've made in the past year.

I've always been a big supporter of "Speak up, be heard, warn others" and stuff like that. But I didn't realize how hard it is to do until you actually have something to speak up about!

There's a meet and greet on Fridays with this group. I may end up fleeing the scene in tears if people act like people do.

[Andara Bledin]

I applaud you for having the courage to do what you know is the right thing and see it through so that, just maybe, down the road someone else won't have to go through what you are going through right now.

I hope that in the aftermath, at least some of your friends surprise you in ways that leave you feeling better than you do now.

^-.-^

[DrFaroohk]

lol I'm surprised you didn't get in trouble. I was assaulted once and it MUST have been my fault, the officer said. People don't just go around assaulting other people for no reason! If I hadn't invited trouble maybe this wouldn't have happened.

[Ladeeda]

For me, it was... well, I'd call it a minor sexual assault.

Let's list the things that would be used against me by Victim Blamers!

BDSM/Swingers Play Party (I'm for the first)
Had my shirt off for the pillow fight area (it was hot, and I was not the only one, male or female)
I'd been drinking (not as drunk as some thought I was. I'm silly by nature, and freaked out when it happened)

Incidentally, it was the host undoing my bra. While I'm shirtless.

One person has dropped me from her Friends list, same person who tried to make me feel bad for "talking shit" (telling people about what happened), but she was never my favorite, anyway, so no loss.

[Andara Bledin]

Even at a swingers party, you ask first. Totally not cool.

Anyone who would unfriend you over your being upset by this doesn't deserve to be your friend.

^-.-^

[Evandril]

For me, it was... well, I'd call it a minor sexual assault.

Let's list the things that would be used against me by Victim Blamers!

BDSM/Swingers Play Party (I'm for the first)
Had my shirt off for the pillow fight area (it was hot, and I was not the only one, male or female)
I'd been drinking (not as drunk as some thought I was. I'm silly by nature, and freaked out when it happened)

Incidentally, it was the host undoing my bra. While I'm shirtless.

One person has dropped me from her Friends list, same person who tried to make me feel bad for "talking shit" (telling people about what happened), but she was never my favorite, anyway, so no loss.

If it was a BDSM party...He seriously needs to be called on his behavior. If you can't trust the people in a scene...you do NOT need to be in it. One untrustworthy person can tear everything apart (Which it sounds like he's doing). If they call you on being upset...You're far better off outside of that group, since someone *IS* going to get hurt, if they haven't already.

Guessing 'safe words' being discouraged by the same person is the next step, if it's not already the case

[Ladeeda]

Indeed. Others have tried to explain it away by "He's a swinger not into BDSM".

Which is bullshit.

Fortunately, I'm moving to New York in 2 months. So even if I do get dropped, there's a much larger and much more varied scene in New York.

[PepperElf]

All I can say is... stand your ground.

At first it will feel like everyone is against you. Some of it will be real - there will be people who shun you for daring to fight back, for "getting their friend in trouble"... but there will also be a lot of people who take your side or are at least on the fence...

However in the long run, most people will be on your side. I've seen it happen... three times actually. All on the same Navy ship.


1) First time.
Guy whips his dick out in public and pokes a girl in the back (unwilling participant). Guy ends up going to mast and getting punished... the rumor mills fly and people start shunning the girl for getting him in trouble.

Eventually the truth came out. She never pressed charges. She was going to blow it off as "Guy is being stupid and drunk". Someone else saw and pushed the issue. The drama dies down and things go on as normal


2) Second story
Doc (enlisted) convinces (or tries to) girl to let him taste-test her vagina for STDs. She presses charges. People start going off on her and how bad she is for getting the doc in trouble.

What they didn't know was that... Doc was like that. I had to personally keep my trap shut for a while because I was a material witness against him. After I was released however I corrected one man who was friends with both the girl and me.

In her case however it didn't die down ... at least not well. But part of that was her own doing, in how she handled it afterwards.


3) Third story, my own.
Had an altercation where I had a door closed on me, on purpose and several times. Thankfully nothing sexual cos the guy in question was greasy and nasty.

Most of his roommates & male friends decided I "got what I was asking for" and felt I was wrong for pressing charges. The ones who were friends with me sided with him because... they had to talk to the police. Yep, I was ostracized for forcing them to pick between lying to the cops or supporting their buddy.

For a long time it felt like everyone was against me. The former friend even ordered some of his buddies to shun me, or face being shunned as well. Some guys even accused me of lying about the whole thing to get the guy in trouble, and suggested I bruised my own back to fake the evidence. And when I fell and hit my head months later, someone actually started suggesting that I was blaming the guy for that too, and that it was further proof that the original attack was faked.

It took a long time... a year perhaps... but eventually I realized things had shifted... Some of the guys who originally shunned me, started thinking for themselves and started treating me better. And the former friend who abandoned me after the attack ended up losing the respect of most of the people he worked for. And that's not a small thing in the Navy. And other higher ranked sailors treated him like he was a dirtbag.

now i won't say that it was all in support of me but... it was perhaps in the understanding that he wasn't responsible. he only cared for things he could take advantage of, and rules only existed if they were in his favor. so not surprising he never amounted to much in the military either

And ... I moved on.



So yes, you will survive. There will be people who try to hurt you for this... but in the long run, people see who is and isn't the real friend and who is just out for themselves.

[Canarr]

BDSM/Swingers Play Party (I'm for the first)
Had my shirt off for the pillow fight area (it was hot, and I was not the only one, male or female)
I'd been drinking (not as drunk as some thought I was. I'm silly by nature, and freaked out when it happened)

Incidentally, it was the host undoing my bra. While I'm shirtless.

DISCLAIMER - assumptions ahead, entirely unburdened by actual experience. But I'm actually interested in the background on this, so an answer would be appreciated.

Okay, I may be a bit naive on that - but I would have expected that, during a Swinger party, at some point someone would start opening bras. In Germany, a party or establishment donning the "Swinger" hat would be offering the opportunity to exchange partners - or pick someone up - for casual sex or other activities, as desired by the participants. In the course of such pursuits, a certain degree of physical contact and/or removal of clothes (own or others') would seem logical.

Further, I would expect some form of etiquette to be established, both for initiating contact to other participants (do you need to verbally ask for consent before every "step"? Or is a non-verbal approach permitted?), as well as for denying such advances from undesired participants. What level of physical contact do participants give implied consent to by joining such a party?

What (I think) I'm trying to get at: I have, over the years, been in situations with girls/women, during which the opening of a bra would be considered socially acceptable; and also in (unfortunately, far more) situations where that would get me rightfully slapped. Now, without having ever visited a Swinger club/party, I still would have expected such an event to be one of those where it's socially acceptable. And I guess I'm kinda puzzled that it's not.

[Ladeeda]

Like I said, BDSM AND Swinger party, and the House Rules are No Touching Without Permission.

The HOST and OWNER OF THE HOUSE who MADE THE RULES broke his own rules. I am not a swinger (well known), very modest (also well known), and have never had any sort of physical, sexual, or romantic relationship with the host. He has, in fact, had to apologize to me for smacking my ass in the past, which is a well-established No No with me. One I am quite vocal about.

[Canarr]

Okay... doesn't this, kinda... ruin the mood?

[Ladeeda]

Ruin what mood? Ruin the "I feel safe in this place because no one is going to touch me without permission" mood? I sure as hell didn't ruin that mood.

[Canarr]

I'm not talking about what you did, I'm talking about the rules in general.

Personally, I find that, if the goal of the evening is sex with a woman, a certain mood helps enrich the experience. Having to ask for verbal permission every step of the way ("Is it okay to hold your hand? Is it okay to touch your neck? Is it okay to kiss you?") wouldn't exactly serve to build up such a mood. Therefore, I'm confused, that's all.

DISCLAIMER: of course, anybody has the right to refuse bodily contact by anybody else at any time they damn well choose. However, that could just as easily be done non-verbally - if necessary, with a slap.

[Ladeeda]

Dude, read this and educate yourself: http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2011/...o-and-yes.html

[Hyena Dandy]

Okay... doesn't this, kinda... ruin the mood?

Truth is, you follow rules in every sexual engagement. Mostly its just rules that you intuit. You can tell what someone else wants fairly well, in a one on one situation. Two people will develop their own personal language of touches and eye-contact.

If you want personal, romantic intimacy, then that mood would be hurt by having to ask for permission.

At parties like this, the rules must be paramount, so that everyone feels safe, and everyone knows what they're getting. Everybody knows what behavior to expect. Its reassuring, allowing participants to gauge whether or not they WANT to be involved with what's going to happen or not, or if they would be there anyway, allowing them to know what they're going to get, so that they don't get shocked.

After all, Ladeeda went to a party with clear rules. She didn't expect to have her bra undone without permission, and she didn't want to have her bra undone without permission. If the rules of the party included (as some have) an assumption of consent, (that is, it is assumed that you're going to be groped/etc, and if you want someone to stop you tell them) rather than an assumption of non-consent (you need to ask before doing anything, I feel a far saner option) then Ladeeda would likely feel less violated. Though she also might not have been there in the first place, because she doesn't like those rules.

The person who broke the rules has no excuse. He knew the rules. He knew he was breaking them. He MADE them. He needs to abide by them. Mood is secondary to safety. It may not be romantic to ask every time you do something, but its more important that those are the rules. Those are what EVERYBODY agreed to.

Sex is delicate emotionally. The rules are important to ensure that nobody gets hurt. Ladeeda was clearly hurt, because the rules were broken.

Rambley! But I hope I made sense.