Anarchy In The UK: Rioting In London

[Zod]

Which by my understanding would get you as much of a jail sentence as shooting them, life and limb be damned. Which, I would argue is the core issue underlying the UK's gun control, and for that matter, the predicament of those caught up in this shitstorm.

Don't belive everything you read in the Daily Mail : self defence is legal and always has been. It's kicking a man when he's down which is frowned on.

[jackfaire]

I'm a white adult with a job and if I had good reason to believe I was going to be stuck at the level I was at as little as 5 years ago and there wasn't a whole lot I could do to make my situation better, I sure as hell wouldn't have been nearly as willing to put up with as much as I did at that time.

That makes the assumption that every single person in the world wants to "better" themselves.

There are plenty of people that find a job they enjoy and they work it and they don't care if it ever turns into "bigger and better" and it has little to do with educational level, something some people cite for why people enjoy jobs, and everything to do with what people want out of life.

[Greenday]

So? Just because they're white adults who had jobs does not mean that they didn't feel trapped by a system that has almost no ability to better oneself.

IMO, the reason most people are trapped at that level is because they are too lazy to do anything about it. Most people don't advance by just doing their job at a satisfactory level. They get additional schooling, they do extra work without having to be asked, they put more the minimal effort into their job. A lot of people feel like they should be rewarded for just showing up to work and doing their job. Anyone can do that. People need to actually do something to show they deserve promotions or whatever it is they want and most are too lazy to do it.

[protege]

There are plenty of people that find a job they enjoy and they work it and they don't care if it ever turns into "bigger and better" and it has little to do with educational level, something some people cite for why people enjoy jobs, and everything to do with what people want out of life.

As long as they're happy with what they're doing, no problem here. However, quite a few people will bitch and moan about how their job sucks...yet they don't want to do anything to change their situation. Most people, if they're in that situation...either switch jobs, or gain additional education in order to get ahead. However, there are some, who think that the world owes them something, and that everyone has to kiss their ass just for showing up. Those people...I just want to smack the shit out of them.

[jackfaire]

As long as they're happy with what they're doing, no problem here. However, quite a few people will bitch and moan about how their job sucks...

That can also depend. 75% of the time I love my job but there are days that make me hate it and I will bitch and moan about my job cuz that day really sucked and highlighted the bad parts of my job.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

That can also depend. 75% of the time I love my job but there are days that make me hate it and I will bitch and moan about my job cuz that day really sucked and highlighted the bad parts of my job.

^this^

Most of the time there's just enough needs done and everything runs smooth, but then there are days... where I can feel myself getting older between tasks, which is always the same day when someone acts like an ass.

[Andara Bledin]

That makes the assumption that every single person in the world wants to "better" themselves.

Everybody wants more than they have. Everybody.

It has nothing to do with whether you're content with what you have, and whether you're content with the perception that forces completely outside of your control, and which will always be outside of your control, are keeping you from having any more.

And unlike some people's assumptions that I'm "determined to consider the rioters as deprived," all I'm saying is that money is not the only thing that people can be deprived of and that being comfortable with your situation is not the same as being satisfied.

IMO, the reason most people are trapped at that level is because they are too lazy to do anything about it.

While this is no doubt true, it's also generally irrelevant.

It's about perceptions as much as actual truth.

If an international report claims that "the UK has the worst social mobility of developed nations," then the people who are the subject of that report are going to believe that their chances to have a better life than their parents are mostly non-existent and that can make people do stupid, even desperate things.

^-.-^

[jackfaire]

Everybody wants more than they have. Everybody.

Hi my names Nevyn *holding out my hand to shake*

[Zod]

If an international report claims that "the UK has the worst social mobility of developed nations," then the people who are the subject of that report are going to believe that their chances to have a better life than their parents are mostly non-existent and that can make people do stupid, even desperate things.

^-.-^

Then why stay in the UK? Thanks to te EU there's 26 other countries they can work in without needing visas or work permits.

[Mikkel]

Then why stay in the UK? Thanks to te EU there's 26 other countries they can work in without needing visas or work permits.

It doesn't make it easier to find a better job with the handicap of not speaking the local language, I'm afraid.
Leaving one's social network behind is a deterrent too.
A nurse or a teacher will find it easy to find a new job in another EU country, a taxi driver or a shop assistant not so much.

[Zod]

It doesn't make it easier to find a better job with the handicap of not speaking the local language, I'm afraid.

Didn't stop half a million Poles coming here.

Annd if you're long term unemployed : why not use the time to learn a foreign language?

Leaving one's social network behind is a deterrent too.

So we've moved from there being no jobs avaliable, to there being jobs, but chosing not to go for them because it inconveniences them?

I'm with Norman Tebbit on this one.

"I grew up in the '30s with an unemployed father. He didn't riot. He got on his bike and looked for work, and he kept looking 'til he found it."

[Greenday]

Didn't stop half a million Poles coming here.

Annd if you're long term unemployed : why not use the time to learn a foreign language?

So we've moved from there being no jobs avaliable, to there being jobs, but chosing not to go for them because it inconveniences them?

I'm with Norman Tebbit on this one.

"I grew up in the '30s with an unemployed father. He didn't riot. He got on his bike and looked for work, and he kept looking 'til he found it."

As I said, laziness. People would rather be miserable than to put effort into bettering themselves.

[Canarr]

And unlike some people's assumptions that I'm "determined to consider the rioters as deprived," all I'm saying is that money is not the only thing that people can be deprived of and that being comfortable with your situation is not the same as being satisfied.


It's about perceptions as much as actual truth.

+1 to this.

The problem is that both Andara, Greenday, Zod and Mikkel are partially right about their positions.

Yes, it is almost impossible to advance outside of one's social class in Britain. But it is possible to advance within one's own social class, albeit difficult; it requires talent, brains and/or effort, something not everyone possesses. Therefore, only a small percentage of people will better themselves on their own; the vast majority will not.

And, as everybody knows, it's always easier to blame society, the government, the whites, the blacks, the Indians (those from India) or whomever else one can be made thinking of, than to take a good, hard look at one's own choices, efforts and activities and to say: "Yeah, I pretty much fucked myself over." Hardly anybody truly has the strength to do that.

As to finding jobs in other countries of the EU, it's like Mikkel said: if you have qualifications, it's doable. If you have no marketable skills, not so much. Not to mention, moving costs money. In theory, any of the people at CS who talk about being discontent with their job, or lack of one, could move out of their current area to any one of 50 states where people speak the same language they do, right?

So that's where perception vs. reality comes into play. If I'm stuck with a shitty job, or no job at all, and no means to get out of this shit that I can see, life sucks for me. Then, along comes someone - for whatever reasons - telling me that, "Hey, that's not your fault. Society's just made up that way, and nobody on top is gonna give you anything unless you take it from them!" - Hell, maybe I'd be rioting material, myself.

DISCLAIMER: NO, I'm not giving excuses for the rioters. I believe that everybody participating in this needs to be punished for his actions according to the law, because that's what we have laws for, and that's how society should work.

Another factor, something that hasn't been mentioned so far: crowds are a dangerous place. It is hot, it is loud, and your personal space is constantly invaded by aggressive people. Such a situation inevitably triggers fight-or-flight responses, pumping adrenaline... that alone can cause people to behave differently than they normally would. Again, no excuse; but possibly one of many causes.