18 year old pees on kids leg on JetBlue flight

[jackfaire]

With the urination the reason it's considered a sexual offence has nothing to do with the urination and is about exposing your genitals. In this case he definitely exposed his genitals to a little girl but I highly doubt it had sexual intent.

As far as his future goes. Not removing him from the team or merely suspending him would have deep and abiding ramifications not just for him but for every teen like him.

"Wait I got away with it sweet"

There are plenty of 18 year old girls and guys that are in high school and do everything they can not to screw up their chances of college by doing something stupid.

I can't think of anyone that would argue that a stupid decision that only takes a few minutes shouldn't ruin the rest of the person's life. By that I mean how many of you would say there should be a tax funded college fund for people that got drunk at a party are now pregnant and now may not be able to go to college.

Sometimes you make a mistake that costs you your dreams maybe even your life. You will then serve as a cautionary tale for those coming after you.

No one said that couple with the kid can't co to college it just may be one closer to home.

No one said he can no longer ski competitively just that he is no longer welcome on the US Olympic team.

A lot of it is perception by the rest of the world. Countries judge us by what thy know about us. By what our President is like and by what our Olympic teams are like.

If we let the kid compete and treat what he did as "ha ha you remember what frank did" drunk story then the impression we leave is that if you put enough alcohol into our President then the last words heard before he sets off a nuke that starts World War 3 will be "hee hee hold my beer"

[radiocerk]

Yes, most guys have done something stupid with their penis, however, when that something stupid involves an 11-year old girl, that goes beyond stupid.

[Ginger Tea]

Granted this happened in the air and I have no idea if it was a domestic or international flight and which juristiction it would fall in, if it had happened in England, he would have been done for indecent exposure or some similar charge (under age drinking would not be an issue as 18 is legal age over here), we as far as I know do not brand the act of public urination as something warranting going on the sex offenders register.

But if anyone doing so in the States gets that handed to them automatically (again no idea about the juristiciton of air flight in this case) then anything said or done to try and get him off due to his skiing career, if it indeed did come under the same law as doing it on the ground in the States, then it would just smack of "yet another athlete who could murder and rape people, but as long as he wins us the superbowl/other sporting event, we'll let it slide."

He done goofed, no disputing that, I've peed in public, probably every one has at some point, or atleast the male populace, but I don't have a draconian scentance hanging over my head, just a fine or indecent exposure charge, not too sure without looking it up.
If I visited the States and got caught peeing in public, I too would face this charge and god knows how people here would see it when it appeared on my criminal record, I meantioned this case at work today and people were surprised that you do every time, not just the odd time, get slapped with that charge (in applicable states) and most would think "sex offender" = rapist or child molester, not peeing in public.

So its a heavy handed law, said that in nearly every post and this is more of the same with extra words, but how could you prossecute anyone in the future if you let a sportsman off for peeing on someone, let alone an 11 year old sleeping girl.
Bill Gates would get branded, so would Jesus, no one should be above the law if you are going to be so heavy with it.

Personally I think it's too heavy, but thankfully, I don't have to worry about it happening to me as I have no forthcoming plans to go abroad, I'll worry if we adopt this rule too, not that I make a habit of peeing in public, but christ it's a harsh sentance.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

How does he NOT deserve to end up on the sex offender registry?

Listen, I'm the first to point out that a lot of people end up on that registry that are not sex offenders. Peeing behind a dumpster when drunk is not the same as whipping your dick out and using it to assault a minor girl child in front of her family. Which is what he did. As such, this animal deserves to be on the sex offender registry.

Actually, he probably deserves to be beaten to death with a fence post, but since that's not on the table, I guess the sex offender registry will have to do for now.

Women and girls get physically, mentally, and verbally assaulted pretty much as part of the cost of being female. This shit starts usually before a girl even hits puberty. If you think this incident didn't have anything to do with that disgusting social trend, think again.

This is who this guy is. He was drunk enough to not think he had to hide it. Delve into that guy's life and I bet you everything I own that he treats females like this on a day to day basis. This time, he was drunk enough and full of himself enough to do it literally this time.

That had been my child, they'd have still been trying to get my fingers off that fucker's cooling windpipe while they were making an emergency landing. I am so not kidding.

"All he did was pee on her?" Really? All he did was yell "hey baby" at her. All he did was grope her. All he did was get carried away. She was dressed like a slut. Boys will be boys. She wanted it. She didn't fight him hard enough. It's not ruining his life over. So yeah, at some point, I guess we need to draw a line. I'd say a grown ass man pissing on a little sleeping girl at the very LEAST ought to have his life ruined.

[Andara Bledin]

This is who this guy is. He was drunk enough to not think he had to hide it. Delve into that guy's life and I bet you everything I own that he treats females like this on a day to day basis. This time, he was drunk enough and full of himself enough to do it literally this time.

This.

Being drunk doesn't change who you are. All it does is stop you from caring who sees the real you.

^-.-^

[wolfie]

Indeed and the registry is an unforgiving thing. In fact often they won't specify what your crime was you know "to protect your right to privacy" which really just makes the fact people know your on the registry worse.

They get to know your on the registry but without details they can and will assume the worst of you. Getting a flier of "This offender just moved into your neighborhood" often comes close to starting a witch hunt even if according to the registry the person has only one offense from 30 years ago.

Since not specifying the crime is "to protect your right to privacy", why can't they change the rules so the offender has the right to waive their right to privacy and have the date and nature of the offense given out, rather than just the fact that they are on the registry, possibly even giving the option to list other (non-sex) convictions for the same offense? After all, would you react differently on receiving a flier "This offender just moved into your neighbourhood", compared to "This offender just moved into your neighbourhood. In 1995, he was convicted of indecent exposure for urinating in public, and was also convicted of public intoxication and minor in possession of alcohol"?

I'm sure the "low level" offenders would jump at the chance to have their new neighbours thinking "WTF? Why does getting drunk and taking a leak in public get you branded a sex offender - he was just a kid being stupid" instead of "Sex offender in my neighbourhood? Let's lynch the child molester!".

[kibbles]

No doubt he deserves to be punished, but implying he should be beaten to death? A bit much IMO.

[jackfaire]

Since not specifying the crime is "to protect your right to privacy", why can't they change the rules so the offender has the right to waive their right to privacy

My theory because most people would not be bothered by a 18 year old who got 6 months in jail because of a fight with his 17 year old girlfriend and her getting pissed at him so accusing him of rape.

Basically it would mean that the person doesn't continue to get punished for something that most people would think is no big deal but that the people passing the laws think the punishments are too lenient.

My brother went to jail for fooling around with a girl that was willing but got busted for breaking her curfew and accused my brother of not letting her leave. Even after they figured out that she had been perfectly willing my brother was still in legal trouble due to her age being 4 years younger than his.

The mother of the girl during sentencing requested, a serious request, that the judge give my little brother the death penalty. That mother is not alone in thinking like that.

Some of the people that determine registration laws believe that premarital sex itself should be punished.

My theory is that "protecting their privacy" is the only way to do that as people will assume the worst without information to the contrary.

Another friend of mine is on the registry for life because legally incest is against the law. Him and his sister entered a mutually consensual relationship.

After being found out he was pegged as the perp and her the victim he went to jail and she underwent psychological torture as they worked hard to convince her that she had been a victim.

There is no broad age gap and they were both in their late teens. There is no reason to believe he was taking advantage of her at all.

Also they were both minors. He was then forced to illegally drop out of school. I say illegally because his PO lied to him and told him that being a registered offender if he didn't drop out and get a job he would go back to jail.

He is moving to a different state and while seeing what he had to do found out how severely his PO lied to him. It wasn't until this year that he got his GED.

While most people would be weirded out by what they did most would also consider it no more a crime than a high school couple having sex on prom night.

Both have been severely emotionally and psychologically scarred by how they were treated and for the rest of his life he has to register.

I don't know about the area he is moving to but here he at least had the advantage of having to be on the registry but since he was a one time offender and not considered a risk for doing it again doesn't have to notify his neighbors.

That is often the only saving grace is that unless they feel you are a risk to your neighbors then you don't have to inform them but the jobs you try to get will know. But never the details.

Though in that case he can technically tell them since it's his "crime" it probably wouldn't help.

[Gravekeeper]

How does he NOT deserve to end up on the sex offender registry?

....because he's not a sex offender? He's just a drunk, stupid moron.

Actually, he probably deserves to be beaten to death with a fence post, but since that's not on the table, I guess the sex offender registry will have to do for now.

Jesus, you're demonstrating the exact problem Imprl was talking about and its fortunate you are not part of the judicial process here. >.>

If you think this incident didn't have anything to do with that disgusting social trend, think again.

Supposition.

This is who this guy is. He was drunk enough to not think he had to hide it. Delve into that guy's life and I bet you everything I own that he treats females like this on a day to day basis. This time, he was drunk enough and full of himself enough to do it literally this time.

Assumptions. Far more likely he was, as he said, so incredibly damn drunk he didn't even realise he was taking a leak next to the toilet instead of in it. He likely would have pissed on anyone sitting where that girl was ( Sad as that sounds ).

That had been my child, they'd have still been trying to get my fingers off that fucker's cooling windpipe while they were making an emergency landing. I am so not kidding.

They *did* have to with the father. Not a surprise, really.

All he did was yell "hey baby" at her. All he did was grope her. All he did was get carried away. She was dressed like a slut. Boys will be boys. She wanted it. She didn't fight him hard enough.

None of which has anything to do with this.

[kibbles]

The mother requested the death penalty for your brother jackfaire? Ugh, someone should request a padded room for her! I hate this lynch mob/vigilante/too dumb to realize they are not being civilized mentality.

[jackfaire]

The mother requested the death penalty for your brother jackfaire?

Yeah the Judge was actually pretty cool actually I think he was more on my brothers side. If the girl had been the same age there never would have been a trial at all. The judge followed the law but put my brother in 6 months of work release, basically he still could get a daily pass to go to work and thus keep his job. Then after 6 months went on the registry and got probation.

....because he's not a sex offender? He's just a drunk, stupid moron.

What's the difference? If he flashed his genitalia at an underage girl he would be considered a sex offender yes the motivation here was different but the effect was the same and that is usually what they are concerned about.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Gravekeeper:

Here's the problem. We really don't know his intent. We never really will. If his intent was just that he was some dumb drunk son of a bitch with bad aim, you're right. My reaction is way out of line.

If this is some sort of sexual aggression thing aimed at a little girl, then I stand by my reaction.

The thing is, we don't really know. And maybe I'm reading way more into this than I should. As a woman who's spent nearly fifty years being female in a society where I can't even walk down the street without being "pissed on" in some way or another, maybe I'm a little touchy. Maybe I'm not the only one.

[Jester]

His claim to fame is that he's a world class olympic skier. Peeing on another is a one night deviation on years of work.

We can either ruin this kids dreams while sweeping this under the rug and pretending it never happened or we can give him a chance to right the wrong he commited.

I agree with the idea that a lot of times, we as a society are far too judgmental, and that the justice system comes down too harsh (or too leniently) on certain people.

That being said, let's look at a few facts. Being on a national athletic team is a privilege, not a right. He worked hard to get there, sure, but he is on the team at their discretion. If he does anything to sully their reputation, they have the right to suspend or remove him from the team. This goes for all national teams in all sports. The governing body of the team has every right to impose whatever punishment they see fit, up to and including terminating his membership on the team.

If his dreams are ruined because of the team's decision, he should deal with the person ultimately responsible for all of that occurring. He will find that person if he looks in the mirror. Because in the end, he is the only one responsible for what happened on that flight. And whatever the team does to him in response, he has no one to blame but himself.

I feel for the guy, as we've all done stupid things, but when you are in a privileged position and representing your country, you have to be even more careful about not doing stupid shit than the average person. Personally, I think he SHOULD be kicked off the team. If I or you or some person not on a national athletic team did what this kid did, I will guaranfuckingtee you we would almost certainly lose our job. My bar loves me, but if the headlines screamed "Jester from The Bar peed on a little girl," The Bar would make certain to disassociate itself from me. In other words, they'd can my ass in a New York minute. And I'd have no one to blame but myself.

No doubt he deserves to be punished, but implying he should be beaten to death? A bit much IMO.

I don't think he should be beaten to death. I can guarantee you, though, if that had been my niece that he peed on and I had been there, he would have been beaten to death, or damn close to it. At that point, my objective logic would have gone flying right out the window as launched myself at him. Since it was not me or my niece, I can be more objective, though, and agree with you that that is not what should happen.

[Gravekeeper]

Here's the problem. We really don't know his intent.

Exactly, we can only look at the facts of the case. You can't prosecute someone for what you think they were thinking.

We never really will. If his intent was just that he was some dumb drunk son of a bitch with bad aim, you're right. My reaction is way out of line. If this is some sort of sexual aggression thing aimed at a little girl, then I stand by my reaction.

Seriously speaking, which is more likely? That he's a drunk, stupid ass kid or that he's really a cunning sexual predatory that's managed to fool everyone so far and get on the national team. But just needed a few drinks into him to turn into a raging pervert who was then presented with the perfect circumstance of a little girl sitting next to the toilet so he'd have an excuse? And what was the plan from there? Wank off in the toilet to the memory? This may come as a surprise but its actually quite difficult to take a leak with an erection. Especially a downwards one onto someone's leg.

Occam's Razor and all that.

The thing is, we don't really know. And maybe I'm reading way more into this than I should.

You are, no offence. -.-

I don't think he should be beaten to death. I can guarantee you, though, if that had been my niece that he peed on and I had been there, he would have been beaten to death, or damn close to it.

Yes, in that regard he's probably quite lucky it happened on a plane with plenty of people around to peel the dad off of him.

[Jester]

As the resident drunk, I have to comment a bit further on this.

I have been fucked up. I have been so fucked up that I have peed into a toilet for several minutes, only to realize about when I was finished peeing that the lid was, in fact, down, and that I had been peeing right on to it the whole time. It created quite a mess.

I have been so fucked up that I have passed out in places I should not have passed out in, I have lost my eyeglasses, I have lost my shirt and woken up wearing one that was not mine.

I am not proud of any of this, but I use to make this point: I have never, ever, EVER been so fucked up that I actually peed on someone else!

And if I did, I would (once I sobered up) taken responsibility for my actions, and accepted whatever punishment I received, be it legal or professional.

And, if I had ever been so fortunate and so blessed as to be a member of an elite athletic team representing my country, I would not get so damn fucked up in public. He may not have known what he was doing because he was too drunk, but no one forced the liquor down his throat....he made a conscious choice to drink.

In the end, there was only one person responsible for his actions, and that was him.