Teachers given new powers to discipline pupils

[guywithashovel]

When I was in school, we had a lot of students whining about the dress code, which when I look back now is pretty funny because our dress codes really weren't that strict. We didn't have to wear a uniform. We could wear jeans, T-shirts, shorts, sandals if we wanted to. There was a rule about the length of shorts, though. When you were standing up straight with your arms pointed straight down, the shorts had to meet or go past the tip of your middle finger. Eventually, it was changed so it was the tip of the thumb instead of the middle finger.

Now, even if you aren't currently wearing shorts (and you don't mind), do both of those little tests on yourself. See how short that allows your shorts to be. We actually had students complaining about how "that made you have to wear shorts that were too long" and that "they couldn't find shorts that come 'clear down to here!"

Aside from that, we weren't allowed to wear fishnet shirts or shirts that had obscene messages on them. I believe Beavis and Butthead shirts and Coed Naked shirts were also banned. They didn't really "like" us to wear tank tops, but as long as they weren't too revealing, they usually didn't say anything.

Like I said, it was a pretty lenient dress code. One time, when a few students in class were having a grumble session about this dress code, our teacher pointed out that he had to wear a tie every day, and therefore was also bound by a dress code (a stricter dress code). They didn't see the relation, though.

[Greenday]

Please.

"No, I don't have a cell phone on me. You saw wrong. And you're not allowed to search my bag. So nyah."

Supreme authority? What kind of authority would that be? How many parents do you think will just accept an accusation of cheating against their darling, on the teacher's word alone, without any evidence?

The problem is, if you establish rules, but grant no power to actually enforce those rules, then they become moot. Don't like a school where the teachers may search your kids' bags or pockets? Choose a different school. Just like you said about your job: either except the "No firearms!" rule, or don't take the job.

In schools I went to, if a teacher sent you to the VP because you cheated, you were shit out of luck. Teacher catching you cheating is proof of you cheating. Being able to go to school unmolested is different from not being able to pack heat at work.

[daleduke17]

When you were standing up straight with your arms pointed straight down, the shorts had to meet or go past the tip of your middle finger. Eventually, it was changed so it was the tip of the thumb instead of the middle finger.

What happens when you get the person that naturally has short arms (not malformed, just short) and Daisy Dukes would be long enough? :P

[Rageaholic]

The problem is, if you establish rules, but grant no power to actually enforce those rules, then they become moot. Don't like a school where the teachers may search your kids' bags or pockets? Choose a different school. Just like you said about your job: either except the "No firearms!" rule, or don't take the job.

So you're saying the only way to enforce those rules are to do random searches of students? As greenday said, there has to be a better way to enforce these rules without possible molestation. I admit that I don't like teachers confiscating students cell phones and what not, but that would be perferable to this.

And it's not always easy to switch schools.

[guywithashovel]

What happens when you get the person that naturally has short arms (not malformed, just short) and Daisy Dukes would be long enough? :P

I remember several people making that protest, saying that it was unfair because some people had longer arms than others.

I guess that was just the best way they could come up with to quickly determine if your shorts were long enough. In eighth grade, we had this one teacher who was a real stickler for that. One time, she made every girl in class who was wearing shorts stand up and do this test on themselves. Several people got really mad at her for that.

[Canarr]

So you're saying the only way to enforce those rules are to do random searches of students?

Never said anything about random searches; I was just responding to Greenday's "I'd never tolerate that!" position, trying to point out that it may, on occasion, be warranted.

And I do find it strange that he wouldn't trust teachers to decide when to search a student's bag, but would trust them to arbitrarily decide when a student cheated. A bag search is hardly molestation; over here, that happens every time you go to a concert, or a festival, the movies or a theme park.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Same here. Every time I go to a concert, my bag is searched. I don't see it as molestation; nor do I see the patting down by a female security guard that happens sometimes at concert venues as likewise. Everyone gets it, no-one is being singled out, so why make a song and dance over it?

[Rageaholic]

Ah that makes more sense. They weren't that specific when they mentioned searches so I figured they meant all out TSA searches (hey it's the public schools, I wouldn't put it past them!).

It's still pretty excessive though.

[Greenday]

I keep seeing a lot of apples-to-oranges comparisons lately on Fratching.

School is somewhere you have to go.

Concerts, festivals, sporting events, etc. are all things that you voluntarily go to where you expect there to be security (trained professionals at that) who will pat you down.

[Canarr]

Concerts, festivals, sporting events, etc. are all things that you voluntarily go to where you expect there to be security (trained professionals at that) who will pat you down.

While I doubt that the "trained professional" status can be applied to all security people at the named events, you are correct that you can choose whether or not to attend them.

Does this mean you don't object to some minimum wage security guy at a concert patting you down, but you'd object to a teacher or professor at your school or college doing the same?

[Greenday]

Does this mean you don't object to some minimum wage security guy at a concert patting you down, but you'd object to a teacher or professor at your school or college doing the same?

Yes. A security guard is supposed to have some training on how to pat someone down and that's their job. A teacher has no training on patting you down and their job is to teach. Teaching doesn't involve searching a person's belongings.

[Kaibutsu]

Has anyone here ever been to a school with a metal detector at the door? Wouldn't that be akin to an 'inspection without a warrant' as well? Would that be reason to throw a fit about personal rights?
Life is hard.
Giving a teacher the ability to be able to search through a student's belongings to prevent disruption does not mean they will ever use said ability, unlike the police. I'd wager most will never do preventative searching, opting to only deal with known troublemakers without alienating the entire class.