A Student Issue

[guywithashovel]

This happened at work recently, and I thought I'd throw it to the Fratching community.

This is an issue with a student at the college where I work. I didn't witness it, but she has spoken to me about it, and I've talked to some of the faculty members close to the situation.

We started a new term last week. On the first day of one of her classes, the instructor was a few minutes late. Moments before class was supposed to begin, her husband called her on her cell phone. She went out in the hallway and answered it. While talking to him, she spotted the instructor coming down the hallway. She said to her husband through the phone that she thought she saw the instructor coming and would have to go soon.

As the instructor walked by her, he said, "Yeah, class is about to start, so you need to get off your phone."

She looked at him aghast and said, "Are you joking?" She apparently thought it was rude for him to tell her to get off her cell phone. Later on she would accuse him of getting into her conversation with her husband.

"No," the instructor answered. "We're about to start."

After this, she gets really angry, feeling like she's been disrespected. She and the instructor have a little back and forth, and he takes her out in the hallway to talk with her about it. She says he talked to her about her attitude and suggested it needed adjusted. He also (according to her) said that she absolutely did not want him as an adversary. This ticked her off some more, and when they went back into the room, she gathered her stuff up and told him in front of the class that she was dropping the class because she wasn't sitting through a class where she was going to be disrespected.

After this, she storms off to the department head's office to complain to him. She said he started making comparisons to work situations, saying, "Well, what if you were on a job and your supervisor told you to get off your phone and get back to your work area." She told him that comparison didn't fly because in that situation, she would be getting paid to do work. "You all don't pay me," she said. "I pay you. It's all about the Benjamins."

She and the department head went to discuss this with her instructor, and apparently the department head took the instructor's side, which made this student even madder. She stormed out out of the building saying she was doing to drop out of the school.

Forty-five minuts later, she returned and spoke with the student services director and the campus director. Then, she finally returned to the class and was angry that the instructor had marked her absent for the three hours she'd spent complaining to other staff members about him. She insisted that she should not be marked absent because she was still in the building. She was also angry to find out that he factored attendance in with students' grades (again with the "I pay you" thing).

Yesterday, the student, the instructor, and the student's academic advisor sat down and had a long talk, and apparently they worked everything out and all is fine now.

Assuming I have this story right, I think the instructor probably shouldn't have thrown in that "you don't want me as an adversary" line. However, I don't see how being told to get off your cell phone and come to class is cause for such anger. Granted, maybe the instructor was abrupt about saying it---possible, since he has a loud voice and can be blunt at times. Also, that "I pay you" mentality gets under my skin. In the college world, you get some students who think that because they pay tuition, they could be able to call the shots and not be asked to do anything they don't want to do.

[AdminAssistant]

I think the instructor probably shouldn't have thrown in that "you don't want me as an adversary" line.

Shouldn't have, wouldn't have (if he's got an ounce of professionalism in him), and probably didn't, if she's the only one saying that's what he said.

However, I don't see how being told to get off your cell phone and come to class is cause for such anger.

I tell students to get off their phones all the time. Those rules are neatly laid out in the syllabus and emphasized on the first day. If someone's out talking on their phones when class starts, they get marked late. If someone is expecting an emergency phone call, then I expect them to let me know ahead of time and be as unobtrusive about it as possible. Otherwise, the phone should be silenced and put away. Them's the rules, and if you don't like it, well, take some other class.

Also, that "I pay you" mentality gets under my skin. In the college world, you get some students who think that because they pay tuition, they could be able to call the shots and not be asked to do anything they don't want to do.

Amazingly, I've never gotten that line before, and I have had some really wealthy students, judging by clothing, technology, etc. Fact is, they don't pay me. GTA's get paid directly by the state of Kansas through a special contract negotiated by the union for state employees. Tuition makes up a minority of funds received by most universities anyway; a larger percentage comes from state and federal monies and private donations. YMMV depending upon the institution. Also, in the vast majority of these cases, their tuition is being paid by the parents or a bank/lending institution.

[HYHYBT]

At first, I was on the student's side: class had not begun (as the instructor hadn't shown up yet) and she had gone out to the hall to take the call. So the instructor ought to have left it alone unless and until the student didn't get off the phone on her own and come into the now-beginning class, which it appears she was in fact doing.

But not after an "I pay you" reaction.

[Andara Bledin]

As far as I can tell, Student was out in the hall on her phone, Teacher arrived and told her that he was there and that class was starting and to get inside, and Student, instead of telling him that she was doing just that had a hissy fit and started something.

Without having been there or having both sides, I think the student went off on something stupid and the teacher took his cues from her.

^-.-^

[Rageaholic]

The student sounded like a little bitch. While I think teachers and professors overreact to cell phones, the one who really overreacted was the student. I mean all he said was "Class is starting". And while I would be a little bit annoyed at being told to get off my phone, I wouldn't start an arguement with him over it. It sounds like a lot of stories on CS. A customer takes a minor annoyance and blows it out of proportion, causing a huge stink over it.

With that said, I don't think the "I pay you" arguement is always a bad one. It was poorly used in the students case, but sometimes it does hold water. There are a few stupid rules at my college that get under my nerves, including an unnecessary attendance policy. There are also teachers or professors who act like you owe them something. Then there are those who make you feel guilty for asking for help. I think in those cases, it's justified to use that arguement. Because I shouldn't have to pay money to be jerked around. But that doesn't mean that I should have the right to jerk them around.

[AdminAssistant]

Re: Attendance being factored into the grades, many professors do that as a favor to students. You get points for just sitting in your chair...who wouldn't like that? (We also have to report students who have never attended a class to Financial Aid, since your aid will be revoked if you've skipped town.)

[bainsidhe]

Student was in the wrong. Totally. And I'm forgiving of the professor, even if he made the adversary. It may have not been an utterly professional comment, but it was completely true. To have such a silly tantrum at the guy giving you a grade is just dumb.

Sounds to me she forgot what being a student means. I'm incredulous at how she acts like the teacher is there to serve her. It doesn't work that way lady.

[LadyBarbossa]

As someone who has had to put up with other students getting up and leaving in the middle of class to take calls, I side with the instructor. Especially when you find out the calls were things like "My husband wanted to know what to take out of the freezer for dinner" or "My kid just wanted to say 'Hi Mommy'". Then there was also the girl who insisted on texting back and forth with her girlfriend for hours at a time. And she didn't turn the sound on the keypad off, either

Owning a cell phone/smart phone does NOT mean you need to forfeit manners and consideration for others. Little children carry these things around in today's world, whipping one out doesn't make you look rich or important, anymore.

[MaggieTheCat]

I think the instructor was a little abrupt with his, "Class is about to start, you need to get off your phone" line. For all he knew, the student had an emergency phone call, or wasn't planning on actually staying for his class. Who is he to tell her to get off the phone when she's out in the hall way? If she was talking in his classroom and being disruptive, that's one thing. If she spent the next 10 minutes on her phone and then walked in late, disrupting the class, I can see him telling her to please finish up her conversations before class so as not to be disruptive. But I don't see how it's his place to tell her when she can talk on her cell when class hadn't even started and they weren't in the classroom.

That said, the student fails on all other levels. Escalating it like she did, the "I pay you" card...all not cool.

[mikoyan29]

I don't like the "I pay you" card either because the are other people who are paying as well. They are certainly not paying to listen to a cell phone conversation. And coming in late to a class is disruptive as well.

However, one thing sticking out for me was that the Instructor was late though.

[Eisa]

I think the instructor was a little abrupt with his, "Class is about to start, you need to get off your phone" line. For all he knew, the student had an emergency phone call, or wasn't planning on actually staying for his class. Who is he to tell her to get off the phone when she's out in the hall way? If she was talking in his classroom and being disruptive, that's one thing. If she spent the next 10 minutes on her phone and then walked in late, disrupting the class, I can see him telling her to please finish up her conversations before class so as not to be disruptive. But I don't see how it's his place to tell her when she can talk on her cell when class hadn't even started and they weren't in the classroom.

That said, the student fails on all other levels. Escalating it like she did, the "I pay you" card...all not cool.

This, basically. I was on her side at first because the instructor kind of sounded like a douche in the way he said it, to be honest. But her reaction was WAY over the top. All she had to do was tell him that's exactly what she was doing. There's a way to do that, be utterly polite, and still kinda get that little burn in.

Instead, she looks like a major twatwaffle to everyone involved. If he DID say the "you don't want me as an adversary" line, that's...not cool at all.

But she overreacted big time.

[Greenday]

The original comment by the teacher made no sense unless he was joking around but that doesn't seem the case. If the student is outside the classroom, what they do has no effect on the class and the teacher has no say on it unless it's disruptive conversation loud enough to be heard inside. The student should have been the bigger person though and ignored the teacher instead of exasperating the issue.

[Lace Neil Singer]

IF he said that. It's entirely possible that the student made it up to make herself look like the better person. Seeing as she then proceeded to throw a bitch fit and go whining to everyone about what a nasty person the teacher was, I'm more inclined to take his side, if only cuz she reminds me of those "No = Rude" SCs we all know and hate.

[SkullKing]

From this, i side with the teacher, though he might have been rude, he didn´t do anything specifically wrong.

Second, while going outside to take a call is obviously much less disruptive than taking the call in-class, people getting up, and comming back, or even just coming late, can be disruptive in itself.

she wasn´t in class, so she was marked as absent, that makes sense to me, and it wouldn´t bother her if she had the willpower to stand by her decision of dropping out of class.

That being said, I have nothing against the money counter argument. the analogy with a commercial company was stupid.

[DrFaroohk]

I find it annoying that the prof was late. How many profs are dicks about punctuality and will lock you out when class starts? A lot!

I can kind of see what's up with the girl. It's possible the professor had a very rude and condescending tone when he said "Get off your phone!" Sometimes the tone and all that says more than the words do. His words might've said "Get off the phone" but the tone is more liek "Get off the fucking phone how DARE you waste my class time!"

She sounds a little bit defensive, a little bit like me, and I can see where she would've thought it sounded like the prof was giving her shit instead of making a polite request, and given that he was late, he was in no position to do that.

I think the only reason "I pay you" came up was because they brought it up first. She was compared to working and the prof being her boss - which actually holds LESS water than the "I pay you" argument.