The Death Penalty Is Unacceptable

[Rapscallion]

I think you're making my point for me. As I was saying, if there was no doubt of someone's guilt in the case of someone performing heinous acts, would you have any objection to the death penalty?

Rapscallion

[BlaqueKatt]

Personally, I'd rather Osama be in a 10x10 cell, in an undisclosed prison(due to risk of attack by his followers), with no contact to the outside world.

I see life in prison as a fair "punishment" for murder, in my view it is a "life for a life", sure the criminal is still endowed with whatever spark makes us alive, but is eating, breathing, drinking really living?






answer by the way is no, it's merely existing.

[Gravekeeper]

I'm genuinely interested - if it were not possible for a system to fail and convict the wrong person, are there circumstances in which anyone against the death penalty would accept it?

No, I still have a moral opposition even after you remove the intellectual ones. Taking a life in an arbitrary fashion like that is never justified in my view.

Plus, the entire thing hinges on an Abrahamic view of religion as well. You can't tell me that part of the "punishment" aspect of the death penalty isn't the assumption that by killing them, they will go to a worse place ( Such as Hell(tm) )and be punished eternally. While you, meanwhile, will be rewarded for your righteousness in killing them. And you are killing them. Someone needs to flip that switch. They might design the system so no one truly knows who really flipped it. But you can't seriously tell me that if there is any sort of karmic or judgement mechanism to the universe that it would be fooled by that sort of bullshit.

If you take the life of someone that's taken a life, you've taken on the moral and/or karmic burden of taking a life yourself and I don't think "Booyah! I fried me a bad guy!" is the attitude that's going to help you resolve that burden before you reach the end of the road. Whatever that end may be.

As for Bin Laden, that's a bit different as he was shot in a combat operation. I don't think they lined him up against a wall and put a bullet in his head, tempting as it might have been for them. But as to whether he lived or died? He comes from an extremist belief system that believes in martyrdom, so killing him is a risk regardless. Removing him disrupts Al-Qaida's operations for a while, yes. But what if he had been kept in a solitary cell for the rest of his life, wasting away without ever getting a chance at a blaze of glory? While he was mocked publically for his porn collection. That might have done more damage to morale.

You're dealing with an opponent that views even their own death as a victory. The last thing they want is to grow old and die in a cell. -.-

McVeigh on the other hand was, basically, completely fucking insane. In a perfect society he would have been spotted, committed and treated long before he managed to blow anyone up. Its not like there wasn't a fark ton of warning signs about the guy leading up to the attack. He was a raging gun freak, white power jackass, gambling obsessed, meth abusing, thought the government put a chip in his ass to track him lunatic that handed out business cards at gun shows encouraging people to assassinate federal agents. He was clearly the product of mental illness and probably should have been caught and treated as such much earlier in his life.

[Racket_Man]

it is NOT only Rick Perry "puttin another notch" in his belt but the prosecuters as well. once they and the cops get it into their little brains that some person is "guilty" no matter how flimsy the eveidence is they will go whole hog on the court. they will rarely IF EVER admit convicting/executing the wrong person even AFTER onverwelming evidence to the contrary is "discovered", found to have been withheld, or new sceintific processes prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is completely innocent.

there have been enough cases of "lost"/missing evidence, "lost" or never interviewed witnesses, suspect coersion, suspect tourture, etc. that procecutors have preptrated on the court system that it really invalidates a LOT of the what the US court system should stand for.

the procecutors are only as good as the last case they WON (most times the sensational trials not the mundane ones). they gotta be "tough on crime" and get the Baddies off the streets no matter what. but that is what the US population elects them to do. and we as a citizenary loudly applaude them for those convictions. what should we care if a "few" innocents get fried. justice was done. the baddies got what they deserve. no retreat no reprieve no excuses.

[Gravekeeper]

it is NOT only Rick Perry "puttin another notch" in his belt but the prosecuters as well. once they and the cops get it into their little brains that some person is "guilty" no matter how flimsy the eveidence is they will go whole hog on the court. they will rarely IF EVER admit convicting/executing the wrong person even AFTER onverwelming evidence to the contrary is "discovered", found to have been withheld, or new sceintific processes prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is completely innocent.

This is what happens you elect your legal system. Its no longer about justice, its about politics, poll numbers and your conviction rate ( aka your high score ). In the US, when you fail to get a conviction its percieved as "losing the case" instead of "dude was innocent". The justice system reflects the public will, which is easily manipulated ( Oh, hello Nancy Grace ) and frankly the whole point of having people that are trained in legal proceedings is so cooler, smarter heads can prevail. Not so some random yokel off the street can make a snap judgement to string someone up.

In Canada's legal system, which while far from perfect, the Crown prosecutor is a civil employee. They're not elected. They're also paid a flat salary. There is no case by case payment nor bonuses for "winning" or any such BS. But most importantly they are not public figures. I couldn't name a single one off the top of my head ( nor any defence laywers for that matter ). In the US, a big trial becomes a spectacle onto itself with "high profile" lawyers and judges whose names people actually know. They become part of the media circus instead of being apart from it and become a weird sort of celebrity onto themselves.

You need to put on a good show to keep your job. Justice be damned.

[Hyena Dandy]

When it comes to the death penalty, I am undecided, honestly. While it is something I have feelings on, I have some feelings both ways.

What I am decided on is that, even if someone is completely guilty, and it can be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, executing them is still not something to be HAPPY about. No matter how many people they killed or raped or why they did it, the fact that they have to die is a BAD thing. It should not be cheered.

[Gravekeeper]

It should not be cheered.

Agreed. Applauding it is downright sick if not sociopathic.

[Rapscallion]

Oh, absolutely - if there's any sensibilities in the US then the republican party should distance itself from that band of idiots in the audience. It shows a complete contempt for the value of life.

I'm still firmly in the undecided camp. I can still see the injustices and wrongful deaths, and I can still see the cases where - to use the old phrase - the guilty party needed killing. Nothing said so far has been anything other than a reiteration of what goes through my mind when I think of this topic.

Rapscallion

[Rageaholic]

I think you're making my point for me. As I was saying, if there was no doubt of someone's guilt in the case of someone performing heinous acts, would you have any objection to the death penalty?

Rapscallion

I would say yes. Chances are, they would get life in prison and since there is no reasonable doubt that they commited the crime. They would still be punished and off the street. Plus, I read a post a while back that killing them is more expensive than keeping them in jail. So while I really wouldn't mind seeing some murdering monster killed, there is still nothing to be gained from it.

[bara]

Its not the penalty, its the system thats the problem. my opinion.

[Mytical]

There are certain types of criminals I would want the death penalty to apply to, but right now..yes the system is not acceptable. I'd rather have many criminals go free, then a single innocent person killed because something got screwed up somewhere.

In some ways, it is also too easy for the criminal too..but that is beside the point. I am not morally against the punishment, but I am against even a single innocent person getting the penalty by mistake.

[Gravekeeper]

Georgia's parole board denied Troy Davis clemency this morning. I assume for daring to appeal while black. Seriously, Amnesty International was objecting to his convinction for fuck sakes and they can't be bothered to give it a once over?

[Andara Bledin]

Georgia's parole board denied Troy Davis clemency this morning. I assume for daring to appeal while black. Seriously, Amnesty International was objecting to his convinction for fuck sakes and they can't be bothered to give it a once over?

He's a thug. They passed sentence on him the moment his co-thug ratted him out to keep himself out of jail.

I'm sure the assholes who can't be bothered to actually look beyond the transcript of the original trial (what the hell is the point of that?!? if the trial was in error, the defendant's lawyer would have already handled it) figure that it doesn't really matter if he did it this time or not. >_<

I'm tired of a court system that provides all the justice money can buy. And more than that, I'm tired of the people who surround me who go about their daily lives completely unaware of the issues surrounding our elections and just vote whoever/whatever without any reflection or contemplation.

^-.-^

[Rageaholic]

Yeah I just heard about it on the news. I don't know if the guy is innocent, but if there are doubts, than killing him is out of the question.

Again, I have to ask, what is there to be gained from a death penalty that can't be gained from keeping the criminal in prison?

[Gravekeeper]

Again, I have to ask, what is there to be gained from a death penalty that can't be gained from keeping the criminal in prison?

"Revenge". Because really, there's absolutely no other reason whatsoever and certainly not a single good reason.