Bullying - A Rant (long)

[Kheldarson]

Eek. Sorry to hear about the kid. It's a tragedy that such a strong seeming kid finally got tired of his burden.

But that being said...the rest of the article kind of concerned me. What kind of laws would we pass to prevent bullying? What subjects would be considered under bullying? Reason why I ask is as I read the article, LGBT seemed to be the main focus (understandable considering the poor boy), but would a bullying law just focus on that? If so, that seems a little narrow as many of us can relate our own bullying tales (I was in one fight, and a number of other altercations which left me injured in some way). Then again, if we make them broad enough to try and cover everything would it really be effective or would it be too controlling? Just worries me, that's all.

[KabeRinnaul]

I wonder how many of them would see that as a bad thing, considering "what" he was. I suspect more than would have said so before he killed himself... but there are the other kind of people as well, who really do see a gay kid dying as a good thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if actually relatively few of them cared at all that he was LGBT or anything else, aside from it making him an easy mark. Particularly because this was online bullying, and that seems to encourage groupthink and lack of empathy. I imagine that a great deal of the bullying comments came from people who were just following the leader and dogpiling this kid for no reason beyond him already being bullied by others.

It works offline, too. But then it seems to be more of a downward spiral. You get singled out for something and bullied. The negative trait is focused on because of that, so you're ostracized. Being ostracized further singles you out and confirms your status as an acceptable target. Until in the end, you're a target because "everyone knows about him" and it's self-perpetuating.

[GameGirl]

I have experience with bullying, first hand and the crap my sister had to put up with.

We grew up in the Midwest. You are different if you aren't a WASP, and my sister, who is Korean, was about as different as different could be. She was harassed, called horrible names, threatened and picked on just because she was Asian. This was back in the seventies so bullying wasn't taken as seriously as it is now, and as much as my parents tried to help the situation (by talking to the parents and the school), the bullying didn't really stop until we moved away. My sister felt ashamed of her heritage for many years because of the bullying. I was bullied too, but for different reasons, and even today I have an extremely hard time with trust.

Bullying needs to be taken seriously. It isn't just "kids having fun" or "kids will be kids". It's kids behaving like sociopaths and getting away with it and it needs to stop.

[smileyeagle1021]

Gods, it's been OVER FORTY YEARS since it happened to me! Why is it still happening? Why is there so much hate out there, and so many kids--kids!--feeding off of it?

.

that is simple, because Christianity still exists.
In fairness, it's also because Islam still exists, and jeudiasm, but those aren't the power forces in play in the United States.
Religion has been the single biggest source of hate in the history of this sad little planet, and as long as we as a society continue to embrace belief systems with fables of gods who will destroy entire cities to kill the few who are different, then society will feel justified in bullying.

They say Lady Gaga is interested in the case...want to know what would *really* cause some waves? If she put her money into replacing the people in charge of that school with people who care about bullying...and possibly get the point across that if you ignore it, you could just lose your nice secure job...

my modest proposal along those lines, guaranteed to eradicate bullying almost immediately.
Make a nationwide law, that if a school has a bullying related suicide the entire staff, from principle down to janitor (it is never just one teacher who misses the signs, it is quite frankly a breakdown of the whole system) is fired and put on a black list from ever teaching in public education again. I guarantee that no one will ignore bullying when they know that they are facing a lifetime ban on working in the field they studied for and will have to either go back to school or settle for menial jobs for the rest of their lives.

And admitting my personal bias, teachers are only slightly more useless than police when it comes to protecting gays and lesbians from christian heterosupremists, so they are on my shitlist and the idea of a shitload of them living on the streets for their failings in protecting gay and lesbian youth would be a nice vendetta fulfilled.

[Canarr]

and as long as we as a society continue to embrace belief systems with fables of gods who will destroy entire cities to kill the few who are different, then society will feel justified in bullying.

[SNIP]

my modest proposal along those lines, guaranteed to eradicate bullying almost immediately.
Make a nationwide law, that if a school has a bullying related suicide the entire staff, from principle down to janitor (it is never just one teacher who misses the signs, it is quite frankly a breakdown of the whole system) is fired and put on a black list from ever teaching in public education again.

But destroying the livelihood of an entire school staff to punish the few who are guilty is justifiable in your eyes? Kill them all, and let... someone else sort them out?

I've known a lot of teachers through the years, both professionally (from being taught by them) and socially (friends, acquaintances, the like) and, surprise! They're just like every other group of people: some good, some bad, some ugly. And the idea of a shitload of them living on the streets fulfills some kind of vendetta you carry against some entirely unrelated, other teachers?

Congratulations; you're prejudiced.

[Kheldarson]

that is simple, because Christianity still exists.
In fairness, it's also because Islam still exists, and jeudiasm, but those aren't the power forces in play in the United States.
Religion has been the single biggest source of hate in the history of this sad little planet, and as long as we as a society continue to embrace belief systems with fables of gods who will destroy entire cities to kill the few who are different, then society will feel justified in bullying.

my modest proposal along those lines, guaranteed to eradicate bullying almost immediately.
Make a nationwide law, that if a school has a bullying related suicide the entire staff, from principle down to janitor (it is never just one teacher who misses the signs, it is quite frankly a breakdown of the whole system) is fired and put on a black list from ever teaching in public education again.
And admitting my personal bias, teachers are only slightly more useless than police when it comes to protecting gays and lesbians from christian heterosupremists, so they are on my shitlist and the idea of a shitload of them living on the streets for their failings in protecting gay and lesbian youth would be a nice vendetta fulfilled.

Holy crap, smiley. Thanks for painting me with two incredibly awful brushes in one go. I didn't know that I was awful person for being a Christian and a teacher.

Bullying has nothing to do with being a Christian, or a Muslim, Jew, Mormon, or what have you. It has to do with pack mentality. Did you know bullying still exists in Catholic schools? Here you have a school that is mostly, if not all, the same religion, dresses all the same, and still kids find something to tease and bully a kid about. This happens everywhere. The more you make a group try to conform to a standard, the more they try to find ways that others don't conform to that standard.

And unfortunately, teachers can only do so much. Even take away what prejudices they might have, main issue is the fact that it takes a complete community to stop bullying. A teacher may stop it, but if the principal doesn't punish what good? If the teacher and principal stop it, but the parents ignore or praise the issue, what good? Everybody has to be willing to say "This is not right" in order to stop the problem.

So main problem is that parents and communities aren't doing what they're supposed to.

[smileyeagle1021]

Just a few who are guilty?
Hardly, when I was in school it wasn't just one or two teachers who were turning a blind eye, it was every single fucking one of them.
I don't give a fuck if you think I'm prejudiced, my life was hell growing up because not a single teacher was willing to do the right thing. Well, not quite every teacher, there was one, out of the hundreds of teachers I had interactions with ONE, just one fucking teacher, was willing to do jack shit other than tell me not to tattle and to just get over it and grow a thicker skin. And he despised his job, being fired would be the best thing to happen to him because he would get out of the industry he hated (mainly because he cared, and there is no room for that in k-12 education) with unemployment benefits.
Hate to break it to you, but the kill them all and let someone else sort it out wouldn't require much sorting if my experience is any idication of the public education system as a whole.
Oh, or were you talking about my "prejudice" against Christians.
Sorry, but that one I don't even need personal experience, for that I can just read the bible.

eta- as I mentioned in the WBC thread, I'm so sorry you are being 'forced' to read my degrading comments because you believe in a God who has commanded my death and for being in an industry that is supposed to be protecting children from the hell I went through, I'm sure I will feel bad for you when (not if, the only way it will become if is if I move out of a Christian stronghold like Utah before it happens) I lay on the sidewalk bleeding, potentially dying, after being attacked by a Christian mob doing their God's bidding.
I will never forgive teachers for their failures for me and the hell I went through growign up and I will never forgive Christians for my experience in the Mormon and Methodist churches. The only reason I wasn't pushed to suicide is I respect my mother too much, but believe me, if my mother had been dead, I would be too by now.

double eta- I'm sure my manager at my second job will be comforted that his daughter coming home in tears every night because the Christians (including the vile teachers in this state) call his daughter a terrorist because she looks arabic has nothing to do with being Christian or a teacher.

[Andara Bledin]

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

I'm sorry you had a lot of shit growing up, but what it was like for you in your school is not what it is like everywhere.

Obviously, your area has a system-wide breakdown. Not everywhere is like that.

^-.-^

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I'm sure I will feel bad for you when (not if, the only way it will become if is if I move out of a Christian stronghold like Utah before it happens) I lay on the sidewalk bleeding, potentially dying, after being attacked by a Christian mob doing their God's bidding..

Okay, if you believe this, truly believe this, you would be moved out by now. Nobody would stay in a situation where they were convinced this would happen if they stayed.

No. People don't stay in the path of speeding cement trucks if they can move out of the way.

How many Christian mobs have you personally seen, Smiley? Roaming around with weapons in their hands and mayhem in their eyes? Have you seen anyone beaten and attacked in the street as you describe? How many times have you seen that? Are you honestly telling us you are living in a state where there is mob rule and anarchy in the streets?

You are not a child. You're a grown man. You can leave. You don't because it would be inconvenient and you know damn well nobody is going to drag you from your bed at night and murder you on the sidewalk. In other words, the inconvenience outweighs the risk.

And that tells me you're not really in all that much danger where you are. Unless there is a leg iron on your ankle or house arrest sensor you're not telling us about.

Your arguments would probably be taken a whole lot more seriously if you'd stop lacing them so liberally with drama and exaggeration.

[Kheldarson]

eta- as I mentioned in the WBC thread, I'm so sorry you are being 'forced' to read my degrading comments because you believe in a God who has commanded my death and for being in an industry that is supposed to be protecting children from the hell I went through, I'm sure I will feel bad for you when (not if, the only way it will become if is if I move out of a Christian stronghold like Utah before it happens) I lay on the sidewalk bleeding, potentially dying, after being attacked by a Christian mob doing their God's bidding.
I will never forgive teachers for their failures for me and the hell I went through growign up and I will never forgive Christians for my experience in the Mormon and Methodist churches. The only reason I wasn't pushed to suicide is I respect my mother too much, but believe me, if my mother had been dead, I would be too by now.

double eta- I'm sure my manager at my second job will be comforted that his daughter coming home in tears every night because the Christians (including the vile teachers in this state) call his daughter a terrorist because she looks arabic has nothing to do with being Christian or a teacher.

And as I mentioned in the religion thread, you're taking the Bible literally. Which very few Christian sects do. Yes, the vocal minority do, but that's still the minority. The rest of us don't feel it necessary to shout our beliefs to the roofs and put people down.

As for your second edit, yeah, her being called terrorist may not have anything to do with the people being Christian. How about them being dumb Americans? Or, more appropriately, ignorant Americans? We've done some incredibly racists things around times of "war" in our history without it having anything to do with religion.

[Rapscallion]

As for your second edit, yeah, her being called terrorist may not have anything to do with the people being Christian. How about them being dumb Americans? Or, more appropriately, ignorant Americans? We've done some incredibly racists things around times of "war" in our history without it having anything to do with religion.

To be fair, quite a few of those were before that independence shindig and we Brits get the blame for some...

Rapscallion

[Kheldarson]

Agreed. And there were quite a few after.

[Andara Bledin]

We don't have to look far at all to see the indignities and atrocities committed upon the Asian-descended population during WWII.

Tribalism and mob rule is the impetus between sanctioned bullying. All you need is a group that decides it's a-ok to be xenophobic and at least one individual who isn't part of that group. Whether it be for race, religion, hair color, mode of expression; those are all excuses - not reasons.

^-.-^

[Canarr]

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Yeah, some Christians suck. But that's not because they're Christians; it's just because they're bastards.

You know what I really, really hate about fundamentalist Christians? Their tendency to focus on some minor passages in the bible, quote them ad nauseam, and apply them whereever it suits them.

Kind of like you, smiley, are doing right. The Fuck. Now.

So that's the part you're picking on? Way back when God sat down and wrote the Bible (he didn't really, you know), he "commanded" that homosexuals be put to death? So that's all there is to it? Nothing about Jesus inviting all the outcasts to his table to dine with him? Nothing about, "Whatever you do to the least of my children, you do to me", or "love thy neighbor like thyself"?

So you believe it's okay to paint literally millions of people with the same brush, just because they belong to the same group as a handful of people that treated you badly? Like, say, calling your manager's daughter a terrorist because some other, arabic-looking people blew up a few of your buildings?

Moral superiority is pretty hard to maintain when you're wallowing in the same muck you despise others for. You're no better than those you claim put you through hell.

[Mytical]

I am not a christian, in fact I don't think there is a term for what I believe. I do follow the creed "Judge not least ye be judged, and by the same measure." (not sure that is exact, but it is close).

There is good and bad in all religions (or lack there of .. ie atheist). Labeling everybody in a group because of what a few do is a bit bass ackward. Most of the WBC are a good example. They are hate mongers, and have about as much to do with Christianity as fresh water has to do with the core of the sun.

sorry for the threadjack..please return to your regularly scheduled thread.