I don't think customers are the problem...

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

A lot of it boils down to different objectives for different entities.

What do I mean by that?

Basically who wants what from whom.

A company wants to maximize profits, in other words: they want to make as much money as they can.

With that in mind they tailor policies that are specifically designed for that purpose. They don't care about screwing over employees, they don't care about being unfair, they don't care about employee loyalty, they only care about making money.

Cutting insurance benefits, freezing wages, firing more experienced people and replacing them with less experienced people, skimping on quality assurance, cutting corners on production.

All of these things are done with the profit motive in mind. The poor employees get caught in the middle of all of it and get frustrated no doubt, but that's how things work in a big company.

Customer service is even trickier. From a consumer standpoint, you want customer service to be helpful and responsive and to compensate you if the company has caused a legitimate problem to inconvenience you.

From a company standpoint, customer service exists to try and PREVENT as much money as possible from going back out the door once taken in. They also want to get rid of you as fast as possible, since the longer they have to deal with you, the more money you cost the company.

That's why that account credit you get promised three times never shows up on your bill.

That's why it's always a battle to get that rebate check you deserve.

That's why you are always magically "transferred" when you don't need to be.

That's why the Supervisors or managers are always "in a meeting"

And so forth.

As I said earlier, the people who bear the most brunt from both sides are the front line workers, because we're getting it from two directions (company and customers) and must somehow balance both while trying to remain employed. It's a lot more complicated than it sounds.

[Gravekeeper]

No no no no.

I understand what you're saying, I was just trying to say that some seemingly silly policies that are stupid on the surface may very well be a reaction to likewise stupid customer behaviour.

They start out with a pretty reasonable request, but some annoying policy gets in the way, and THAT is when the customers become raging assholes.

But you still get no where by being a raging asshole regardless of how justified you think you are in being one. As 99% of the time you're yelling at the wrong person and that person is going to feel resentful of that and not be that inclined to assist you.

Conversely, people would be amazed if they all realised just how much further a CSR will go to help you if you treat them like a human being.

[SkullKing]

Not always true.

some times you only get results if you get angry. Even if just because people want you to stop calling. (think of all the times a superior caved to an SC because they were forceful)

You know, I once got yelled at by my boss for being too polite, since being polite wasn´t getting results.

Now what is really really worse?




He was right.

[flybye023]

The other thing I hate regarding customers complaining to the cashier is on forums or comments where the customer is instructed to direct their complaints to corporate and they respond "well, I just told an employee--it's their job to pass on my message if they can't do anything about it."

Well, technically I can pass the message on but corporate doesn't see it as coming from the customer, they see it as coming from me and therefore it doesn't carry as much weight as it would if the customer did it themselves.

[Gravekeeper]

some times you only get results if you get angry. Even if just because people want you to stop calling. (think of all the times a superior caved to an SC because they were forceful)

Caving into a forceful SC isn't exactly a good thing though. Also, 9 times out of 10 getting angry won't get you that far. Like I said, yelling at an employee creates a defensive employee most of the time. Typically the problem is something the company has done or has not done, not something the employee personally did. People don't like being blamed for something that isn't their fault. Simple as that. It doesn't matter if they're representing a company, they're still human and will react as such.

If someone "caves in" its typically because the SC has caused so much grief or stress that the person in question decides its easier to placate the SC then it is to keep dealing with their shit. That's not a result, that's being a fuckhead. >.>

When someone goes off on me at work ( especially the moment I answer ), they get, as I said, the bare minimum I am required to provide and that's only if they listen to anything I say and are willing to provide me with whatever information I need to help. Otherwise they're getting hung up on. Simple as that. They can call back if they like, but I'm hanging up on them again and I can gurantee I have more patience for the hang up game then they do. ;p

Hell, I had this very case in point at work this week. Guy was upset with some manager at the company, but he was being a complete prick about it till I finally warned him I would terminate the call if he continued. ( Naturally, he called me a "fucking faggot" for daring to request basic human respect. )

[Rageaholic]

I understand what you're saying, I was just trying to say that some seemingly silly policies that are stupid on the surface may very well be a reaction to likewise stupid customer behaviour.

Never thought of it that way.

But you still get no where by being a raging asshole regardless of how justified you think you are in being one. As 99% of the time you're yelling at the wrong person and that person is going to feel resentful of that and not be that inclined to assist you.

Conversely, people would be amazed if they all realised just how much further a CSR will go to help you if you treat them like a human being.

I won't argue here either. I applaud anyone who refuses to take abuse from customers or their employers. I may be mad at some stupid company policy, and I may rant about it on here, but I don't pull any of the shit some of the customers do. As I said, I think customers overreact and are definately not blameless. But neither is the company in those instances. In a few stories, the customer got outright gyped by the company (particularly with banks and insurance companies). It's easy to say "He should have read the fine print", but sometimes stuff can slip past you.

So while I don't condone some of the shitty things customers and wouldn't stoop to their level, I can easily see myself in that situation.

[Gravekeeper]

I won't argue here either. I applaud anyone who refuses to take abuse from customers or their employers.

I think thats one of the key problems right there. Companies where you have to take the abuse per your employer. It seems to be a symptom of larger corporations where people get lost in the policies because CSR Joe Blow's suffering is never directly witnessed by nor has any affect upon CEO Douchenozzle.

Once you insulate yourself with enough layers between your customers, staff and yourself. You can come up with douchebag policies all day and never deal with the reprecussions. ;p

[SkullKing]

Caving into a forceful SC isn't exactly a good thing though.

Oh it ´s most certainly not a good thing. But If SCs can get things by being angry they would never get otherwise, It shows that at least sometimes it works.

And when you have been nice for a month, with no result whatsoever( and a completely legitimate complain, not an scam or anything like that), and them suddenly you get angry and you get the results.

It is disheartening to realize, that you could have saved yourself many hours of stress and unnecessary work by being forceful from the get go.

I am not saying it is right to be an SC( far from it, I detest them). But as Gravekeeper said: Fuckheads get results.

[Andara Bledin]

If someone "caves in" its typically because the SC has caused so much grief or stress that the person in question decides its easier to placate the SC then it is to keep dealing with their shit. That's not a result, that's being a fuckhead. >.>

That's being a bully. And we all know how we feel about bullies around here.

Mostly... unless they're some minority, then they can't possibly be bullies.

Once you insulate yourself with enough layers between your customers, staff and yourself. You can come up with douchebag policies all day and never deal with the reprecussions. ;p

Monkeysphere. Once the company gets large enough, the people on the front lines stop being people and turn into just numbers.

^-.-^

[Fire_on_High]

I understand what you're saying, I was just trying to say that some seemingly silly policies that are stupid on the surface may very well be a reaction to likewise stupid customer behaviour.

*snip*

Conversely, people would be amazed if they all realised just how much further a CSR will go to help you if you treat them like a human being.

Flipside is, don't ask me to do something I know has a reasonable to high chance of damaging my equipment, if I call. I'm going to refuse politely and explain why, and what steps I've done to come to the conclusion I have, and it will be a cold day in hell before I do something I know is incorrect or stupidly risky.

Got a HP as a gift with one of the problematic video cards...went through seven before I got a good one, a post recall version with a different cooling system. First few I had very little trouble getting a replacement, since you could hear it buzzsawing away in the background. Yeah, I did that intentionally, for exactly that reason.

Then one of the replacements is a different kind of faulty...it started showing signs of issues OTHER than grinding fan less than an hour after installing, even with excellent temps. It went from "logged into WoW but with visual glitches" to "machine won't even get to the desktop anymore" over a single night, the first night.

The tech wanted me to run a diagnostic from inside the OS. Explained to him nope, not happening, and I'm not even trying again considering the pretty technicolor patches on the blue HP logo and configuration screen. Oh, there's a non Windows one? Sure, we'll give it a go...and the assmunch is giving me directions that would have ran a factory restore.

Hell. Fucking. No.

I didn't yell, but I dug my heels in and told him it wasn't happening, I'd verified the issue by swapping cards around between machines, and needed a replacement. He finally did give in...but I'm fairly sure I broke his brain by not mindlessly nuking my data according to his script.

(2 years later, that install is still hale and hearty.)

[Peppergirl]

As a CSR myself, absolutely nothing floors my willingness to assist a caller then having one who is pissed off and taking it out on me even though I have nothing to do with it. I will do the bare minimum my job requires to assist you, and likely pass along your attitude and behaviour to the person or company in question you're trying to reach. So they're not likely to want to deal with you much either.

This. So much.

This happens to be a policy I adhere to, and I allow my agents to do the same. If we bend over backwards for people behaving as boorishly as he was, what incentive is there for them to behave?

The fact that this asshole had a valid point was completely negated when he abused the agent. And yes, it's abuse. Plain and simple. And the majority of the time it's endorsed by corporations who kiss the asses of customers who behave this way. Makes me sick.

[Gravekeeper]

I didn't yell, but I dug my heels in and told him it wasn't happening, I'd verified the issue by swapping cards around between machines, and needed a replacement. He finally did give in...but I'm fairly sure I broke his brain by not mindlessly nuking my data according to his script.

Yeah, thats one reason why I like my ISP. As it appears to have a "Shit this guy actually knows what he's talking about, I should just put him right through to tier 2" clause in its policies.

[Lace Neil Singer]

The other thing I hate regarding customers complaining to the cashier is on forums or comments where the customer is instructed to direct their complaints to corporate and they respond "well, I just told an employee--it's their job to pass on my message if they can't do anything about it."

Well, technically I can pass the message on but corporate doesn't see it as coming from the customer, they see it as coming from me and therefore it doesn't carry as much weight as it would if the customer did it themselves.

Oh god, this. Back when I worked on a checkout, I used to get raeg filled customers moaning about various things, usually ending with me finally getting a word in edgeways and saying, "If you want to make a complaint about *insert problem here* then go to Customer Services and ask to see a duty manager."

Nine times out of ten, the customer would reply snappily, "I don't have time for that, can't you just pass it on?"

No. I can't. Despite what these people might think, I don't have the authority as a cashier to call out the manager and pass on messages; the customer has to talk to them themselves in order for the complaint to pass. A lot of time too, what they're whining about is something that can't be changed; for example, back when I was on checkouts, a lot of complaints were about the carpark not being free. There was nothing that Orange Bag could do about it, cuz they didn't own the carpark; it was council owned and the council wouldn't sell it to Orange Bag. So a complaint would be pointless.

At the petrol station, we get a variety of stupid complaints, usually by people who can't seem to grasp the fact that the manager and second don't live in the petrol station and do occasionally leave it on days off. We tell them that if they've got an issue, to come in the next day, but we invariably get the answer, "Well, can't you just call them up now and get them to come in?" No, we can't. Even if I could, I'm only going to do that for an emergency, not just cuz you forgot to use your petrol voucher and now it's expired.

[flybye023]

My other feeling on that is if you can't be bothered to fill out the complaints/comments card that is right there at the register and instead want Someone Else to take care of it for you, it's not really all that important to you now, is it?