DUI Laws that Encourage Driving Drunk

[Canarr]

Being a German resident of Germany, I can tell you: we have underage drinking and binge drinking, as well.

Here, you can legally purchase beer and wine at age 16, and any kind of booze at age 18. That age restriction only covers public places (bars, restaurants and shops); in their own home, parents may freely distribute alcohol to their children (within reason, of course; regularly pouring wodka into your five-year-olds morning cereal will get our version of CPS on your ass). But if you want to let your 14-year-old have a glass of wine with his Christmas dinner, you're free to do so.

Additionally, there's no law against drinking in public. If I want to walk down main street in my town, sipping from a beer, I'm free to do so. Stumbling around stinking-drunk may still get me picked up by the police, though.

Still, you can get booze you're not legally allowed to buy - with no greater or lesser stress than in the US, I'd imagine. And you'll find kids aged anywhere between 12 and 20 drinking stuff they shouldn't drink, and yeah, sometimes it turns out badly. Shit happens, and no amount of regulation will stop kids from doing stupid things. Shackling the parents, removing from them any possibility of giving their offspring a careful, sensible introduction to alcohol, is not helpful.

[AdminAssistant]

Nevada has the best law. 24-7. Buy it in a supermarket. Liquor stores can sell accessaries. Louisiana is also like this, especially near New Orleans.

Missouri allows for the sale of beer/wine/liquor in supermarkets, but I don't think it's 24/7. In Kansas, it's beer/wine coolers only in supermarkets, and liquor stores can only sell accessories/mixers with a special permit.

In Arkansas, it's by county. My hometown is in a 'dry' county, which is completely pointless since every county that surrounds it sells alcohol, and there are liquor stores just across the county line in every direction. They've also passed a law that allows restaurants to set themselves up as 'private clubs' so they can sell liquor by the drink. All you have to do is sign a register as you enter the restaurant. Lo and behold, restaurant growth has increased dramatically.

[Panacea]

But it's irrelevant. They already were under threat of worse than just losing their licenses and the still thought that going out and driving was a sound choice to make.

More laws don't stop it. What we need is proper education, proper enforcement, and for the punishments to actually matter and make a difference. Losing your license is inconvenient, but for people who are already breaking the law, driving without a license isn't any sort of challenge or deterrent.

^-.-^

You're completely missing the point. Penalties serve as a deterrent. Since penalties were increased and drinking ages reduced, the number of teens in car crashes has dropped significantly. These laws do work. Did they work in my case? Obviously not. What my case illustrates is the NEED for these laws to exist.

Driving without a license carries its own penalties if you are caught . . . as in JAIL. They don't give you a ticket. They take you to jail. Sure, there will be a handful who will continue to ignore that penalty, too. But as a deterrent it also works as evidenced by declining traffic mortality rates.

You misunderstood me...I'm saying that if a harsher law did not stop them, a less severe one will *NOT* serve as a deterrant!

It's like saying if you do x, we're going to fine you $100! *they do x*. Fine! If you do it again, we're going to change the fine to $10! NOW you won't risk it!

Depends on what you see as severe. As someone else noted, losing driving privileges is a harsher penalty than a fine in some instances. It's all a matter of what you value more: driving or money. Since the parents often foot the bills of the teens, driving privileges are where you're more likely to hit them where it hurts.

Another thing I really dislike are hours one can buy alcohol.

Liquor and wine must be sold in a liquor store, which must close at 11 PM (dunno when they opened, never a breakfast drinker), and closed (by law) on Sunday. Supermarkets are not allowed to sell liquor or wine, with the liquor store being physically another building.

(This is moronic) Liquor stores are not allowed to sell anything but liquor and wine. No cork screws, drinks, mixers, candy, cigarettes, nothing but liquor and wine.

You think that's moronic? North Carolina is even worse. You can only buy liquor in a state run ABC store (Alcoholic Beverage Commission) during similarly limited hours. When I first moved here, you could only buy wine in a wine store . . .no where else (that has since changed and you can buy it in grocery stores now). Beer is more easily available, though limited in hours. Some counties are still completely dry.

[Andara Bledin]

Driving without a license carries its own penalties if you are caught . . . as in JAIL. They don't give you a ticket.

Depends on where you are. Around here, it's a ticket and a 90-day impound on the car. Since many of the people who drive without a license also tend to drive beaters that aren't worth the impound fees, it just means they have to scrape together enough cash to pick up their next beater. The only way around the impound is for the car's owner to claim it was stolen and press charges.

And I really don't think that the punishments have nearly as much effect as the tighter restrictions on access.

^-.-^

[wolfie]

This is another law they got it all wrong.

Being in my car, even with the key on and engine running, does not count as driving.

No one ever crashed into a tree or another car because they were drunk and sitting in a car with the engine idling. Maybe they're cold. Maybe they want some radio.

Because slipping gears while moving around drunk or sleeping would be so tough.

Regarding a drunk flailing around in a car with the engine running, I can see 3 cases:

1) Manual transmission. With the clutch engaged (foot not on pedal), hitting the shifter in the right direction to engage a gear will grind the gears rather than engage them. Unless the drunk is in the driver's seat, their chances of having their foot on the clutch at the same time they hit the shifter are virtually zero.

2) Automatic transmission, shifter on column. You need to pull the shifter back while moving it down to get out of park. I can see this being remotely possible for a drunk in the front passenger seat.

3) Automatic transmission, shifter on console. You need to push the button on the (driver's side of the) shifter to get it out of park - a drunk in the passenger seat would be at the wrong angle to hit the button.

Based on this, I don't see how it's justifiable for it to be DUI for a drunk to be sleeping it off in the back seat with the engine running for heat/radio/air conditioning, and it should be a rebuttable presumption (i.e. prosecution needs to show that the car could be put into gear by a single motion of a front-seat passenger) that it's not DUI to be sleeping it off in the passenger seat.

[HYHYBT]

I can't explain why, precisely, but it seems all wrong to have any kind of penalties affect a driver's license that have nothing to do with driving.

As for keys in the ignition: in most cars nowadays, the windows are electric and only work when the key is in the ignition. If the windows are down and it starts to rain, what are you supposed to do?

[DrFaroohk]

^ This. I think punishments need to be related to the crime. Driving privileges should only be affected from driving crimes. Schools should only be able to punish you for things that happen in school. Bosses should only be able to penalize you for stuff that happens at work.

Especially since there's lots of reverse situations where one might be benefited by something outside of the sphere of influence yet and is told "well that has nothing to do with this."

[Evandril]

Depends on what you see as severe. As someone else noted, losing driving privileges is a harsher penalty than a fine in some instances. It's all a matter of what you value more: driving or money. Since the parents often foot the bills of the teens, driving privileges are where you're more likely to hit them where it hurts.

I was referring to a very limited enviroment, ie, the military...and while it is possible that an Airman might have parents willing to pay their fine, I do not see them helping with reporting to the commander in full dress blues, losing your driving prividges on-base for a year, and not being promoted for a year, if not kicked out. The part about the fine I only listed it as saying if a fine of $100 didn't stop you, I don't see a fine of $10 being worse...And believe me, I'd FAR rather lose my licence for a while than have to deal with what the military would do to me for underage drinking and driving...And, given the choice, I can't think of anyone that wouldn't do the same.

[bara]

And believe me, I'd FAR rather lose my licence for a while than have to deal with what the military would do to me for underage drinking and driving...And, given the choice, I can't think of anyone that wouldn't do the same.

Oh yeah, I can totally see having to talk to an E-8 or 9 about this one. And by talk I mean 'in the front leaning rest position'. Possible loss of rank, (possible my ass youd be an e-1 again), having pay taken away, extra duty for a couple of months, restriction to quarters when not on duty (the three hours he was given to sleep). Guy who did that up in Alaska got smoked BAD. From his team leader all the way up to the Command Sgt. Major of the Battalion gave him shit for that little stunt.
Oh yeah, he wasnt even driving when this happened. He was just making a fool in the hallway, at our barracks. (He shouldnt have lied about drinking to the Sgt on duty and he woulnt have gotten in trouble at all).

Extra Duty=any shit job they can come up with. Like counting the numer of tiles in a hallway, sweeping the parking lot, weeding an entire feild by hand, cleaning the trash cans, taking an invenotry on grid squares (if they can find them)... Cisco (not his name) NEVER did that again.

Bonus- I drank WITH my squad leader, I was underage, drank with the Command Sgt. Major once... he was buying. No one gave a shit because I didnt get stupid and reported ready for duty on time and sober.