Sorry lady, our dogs come first. (longish)

[draggar]

We were at a disabilities expo today for Service Dogs 4 Service Men and we had our greyhounds with us - Hero who is close to being ready to be handed off to his vet, Hero II who just got into the program, as well as Butch and Rider - the two other greyhounds who were close but just got beat out by Hero II and are still in the Greyhound rescue (to be ambassadors). We also had Zorro (because my wife needed him today).

Yes, this is a disabilities expo and yes it includes mental disabilities. We expected children and adults with a variety of mental disabilities so we kept a close eye on Zorro and usually kept him in the back if we thought someone might be too rough with him.

I'm out with Hero II and the training coordinator is with Butch (Hero is sleeping by the table) and an older child who clearly had some severe mental disability comes up to us and starts to pet the dogs. He's a little rough with them but nothing more than what a younger child would be like. To be safe we keep a close eye on him, his actions, and the dogs' reactions.

He tells Hero II to sit but I explain to him that we just got him and he doesn't know what sit means. He tried a few times and then started to push Hero II's rear end down while telling him to sit. I asked him not to do this. The child is acting extremely dominant to Hero II but thank god he's a secure dog and didn't really react.

He starts to get a little rough with Hero II and I ask him not to do that and it seemed to take a few minutes for him to comprehend. The trainer and I are extremely patient with the child. We don't want this to be a negative experience for anyone. He continues to get rough with Hero II and Hero II is giving a lot of avoidance and calming signals - it's a clear sign he is not comfortable. I tell the child that he needs a rest and I should take him for a walk. The child protested a little but he seemed to get his eye on Hero (who was still sleeping next to our table). I take Hero II out for a walk.

When I get back the trainer is arguing with a woman, who turned out to be the child's mother. She looks at me and asks why I refused to let her son pet the dog. I told her that it was because her son was getting a little rough with him and the dog needed a break. Of course she didn't take it but then she goes back to the trainer and starts to tell him off for grabbing her son.

Apparently when he was "petting" Hero, the child lifted up his leg and tried to step on Hero's head (deliberately - my wife said that he was looking at Hero's head when he did it), the trainer quickly stopped it by pulling the child back and then told the child he had to leave. (he then went to his mom and cried to her).

She started going off on how we need to be sensitive to a child with his needs. I think the trainer just about lost it. "Lady, your son was very rough to our dogs but we let it slide knowing his sensitivity. He was very dominating to them and we let it slide. Even after we asked him to not be so rough he continued to be rough with them and we let it slide. It wasn't until he was about to seriously injure our service dog did I intervene. At times like this I need to think about MY dog's well being first than your child's."

Of course the mother came back with "It's just a dog" and the trainer cut her off "A SERVICE dog and if your son had injured them then YOU would have been responsible for the vet bills AND the cost of retraining a new dog. I spent hundreds of hours training this dog and I am not going to let it all get destroyed because YOU weren't keep an eye on YOUR child."

With that the mother stormed off.

The greyhounds continued on with the rest of the event like nothing happened (like any good service dog should).

[blas87]

Wow.

Just your typical run of the mill idiot parent who thinks their kid can do no wrong? Or one of those parents of children with disabilites that also thinks their kid can do no wrong, and no matter what their kid does, it's your fault because their kid has a disability and doesn't know any better?

Yeesh.

I'm so glad your partner was able to keep that dog from getting stomped. The cynic in me thinks the kid knew that stomping the dog was wrong, but didn't care either way.

[anakhouri]

Where was the mom when the kid was handling the dogs all that time? Any time Khan is with an animal, even one we know well, I am a remora stuck to that kid, for his safety and for the animal's.

[HYHYBT]

Fast forward a decade or two and you have this story from another recent thread.

[Rageaholic]

What did the lady expect the trainer to do, just stand there and let the kid hurt or even kill the dogs? How entitled can you get? Just because the son has a mental disability doesn't make it acceptable for him to HARM OTHER THINGS. Once he crosses that line, being "sensitive" toward him is a non issue.

God people are stupid.

[tabbyblack13]

God people are stupid.

Yes they are.


Draggar, how much is a service dog worth if a person had to purchase one? I know they are priceless to the people who depend on them but as a retail price if someone had to purchase one right away.

[patiokitty]

A couple of friends and I were talking about something similar to this earlier tonight, especially in light of how some parents simply fail to realize that they are responsible for their children's behaviour - regardless of the mental and physical capacity of said children. Or they are purposely blind to the actions of their child because they feel guilty for having a special needs child. I've seen a lot of it over the years between dealing with my sister (who is special needs - mentally and physically) and the volunteer work I've done with special needs kids and frankly there is no excuse for it.

Regardless of mental acuity, children can be taught that there are somethings they can't do...I don't think I've come across a mid- to high-functioning child that doesn't eventually learn that 'no' means exactly that. If the parents are willing to work with the child in tandem with behavioural therapists (especially if the issue directly affects behaviour) to curb anti-social actions then this sort of stuff can be nipped in the bud - but the parents have to be consistent and continue the work at all times for it stick. In this case it sounds like the mother is focused only on the fact that her child is special needs and is also a special snowflake that can do whatever the hell he wants.

That doesn't fly with me at all and I have no patience with parents like that. I don't give a rat's arse if the child is handicapped in some way - they still have a responsibility to teach that child how to behave, even if it is a long process, instead of passing the buck by saying "Little Johnny is special needs so you have to be nice to him and let him do what he wants." Fuck that noise right in the ear.

[AdminAssistant]

Yeah, if her son was mentally disabled shouldn't she be with him all the time? Sheesh. I'm glad the dogs are okay, Draggar, and happy that the vet got such a well-trained service animal.

[Gravekeeper]

Fast forward a decade or two and you have this story from another recent thread.

I was a little stabby at the beginning of this thread. I am a lot more stabby now.

[draggar]

Wow.

Just your typical run of the mill idiot parent who thinks their kid can do no wrong? Or one of those parents of children with disabilites that also thinks their kid can do no wrong, and no matter what their kid does, it's your fault because their kid has a disability and doesn't know any better?

Yeesh.

I'm so glad your partner was able to keep that dog from getting stomped. The cynic in me thinks the kid knew that stomping the dog was wrong, but didn't care either way.

I don't know where the mother was, I was paying too much attention to the child and Hero II's body language (to tell if Hero II was getting too stressed).

As for right vs. wrong, my wife was explaining later that some mental disabilities prevent people from feeling emotions or the value of life (or something like that, I'm not a psych person). If the child had stomped on Hero's head and killed him, the child might have just thought "Huh, he stopped moving, why?".

Where was the mom when the kid was handling the dogs all that time? Any time Khan is with an animal, even one we know well, I am a remora stuck to that kid, for his safety and for the animal's.

I do not know where she was. Across from us was a spinal repair booth and I don't remember who was next to us (we were at the end with two vacant tables beyond us).

Regardless of mental acuity, children can be taught that there are somethings they can't do...I don't think I've come across a mid- to high-functioning child that doesn't eventually learn that 'no' means exactly that. If the parents are willing to work with the child in tandem with behavioural therapists (especially if the issue directly affects behaviour) to curb anti-social actions then this sort of stuff can be nipped in the bud - but the parents have to be consistent and continue the work at all times for it stick. In this case it sounds like the mother is focused only on the fact that her child is special needs and is also a special snowflake that can do whatever the hell he wants.

I agree and I think it can be taught even with a disability as severe as this child seemed to have. He seemed OK on his own, he had a cell phone and talked on it, he didn't try to destroy anything on the tables, and was even respectful to people. I have a feeling he hasn't had much exposure to pets and other animals (if any at all). Shame on the parents if that is the case.

Yeah, if her son was mentally disabled shouldn't she be with him all the time? Sheesh. I'm glad the dogs are okay, Draggar, and happy that the vet got such a well-trained service animal.

The vet hasn't gotten a dog yet, Hero is pretty close but we're planning a hand-off ceremony on Nev 11th (appropriate day).

Draggar, how much is a service dog worth if a person had to purchase one? I know they are priceless to the people who depend on them but as a retail price if someone had to purchase one right away.

According to the law a service dog is only worth what you paid for it. So, our dogs were donated though Greyhound Pets of America (Southeast Chapter) and the Palm Beach Kennel Club and we're going to give him to a vet - the value is $0 (sucks, I know). You can sue for replacement cost, though.

Purchased service dogs can go anywhere from $1000 to as much as you want to spend. Ethical trainers will only charge for the price of the dog, their time in training the dog, and the price of maintenance (vet bills, food, etc.). Some greedier trainers will add a few zeroes to that number sadly.

As for the "value" to their handler - I'd say priceless. Like Zorro. Yeah, he didn't cost much (my wife had a great relationship with the breeder), we've put a lot of time and energy into him, but he is such a phenomenal service dog that she wouldn't sell him for anything. He helps her get around the house and outside, picks things up for her, and is also our house protector. You can't put a price on that.

[XCashier]

Kudos to the trainer for stopping the situation, and to the dogs for putting up with crap no animal should have to put up with. Bless them.

That kid needs serious help, and his mother needs to take her head out of her ass and get him that help.

[draggar]

My wife told me that she thinks the child had a severe case of Downs Syndrome.

[patiokitty]

One of the girls I knew growing up had severe Downs Syndrome - you can't miss it and there really wouldn't be any 'thinking' required to tell. There are certain characteristics that are pretty hard to mistake as being pretty much anything else. Any combination of a small chin, unusually round face, protruding or larger than normal tongue, almond shaped eyes, flat nasal bridge, etc., are usually present...so, I'm pretty sure you may have noticed it off the bat.

I do recall that this girl had pretty bad cognitive impairment too but that was due in a large part to her parents not being willing to discipline her because they felt bad enough that she was born with Downs Syndrome. This meant that she was known to randomly lash out physically and do some real damage, and if a child reacted in kind this girl would run back to her parents...and the child that had gotten attacked in the first place was made out to be the one at fault and should have just taken the attack with a grain of salt because <girl> was mentally retarded.

I had been one of those kids she had attacked for no good reason and as a kid I was the sort who hit back when another kid hit me. Her parents freaked right out and threatened to lay charges on me (I was all of 9 when this happened) until other parents spoke up about how <girl> had essentially laid beatings on their kids. Of course, <girl>'s parents refused to take responsibility for their daughter's actions...but a couple of years later <girl> was in foster care because her parents were deemed unable to adequately care for her - apparently <girl> injured another child bad enough to hospitalize him and his parents took <girl>'s parents to court. In foster care <girl> FINALLY learned that she couldn't just run around uncontrolled but it had been a tough go on her foster family. Everything they taught her were things she should have been taught from an early age - such as how to go for a shower and properly wash, how to control her violent outbursts, etc.

Having Downs Syndrome is no excuse for trying to hurt any living being.

[Panacea]

I'm glad Hero is OK.

Fast forward a decade or two and you have this story from another recent thread.

Holy crap

What these parents need to learn is diminished capacity won't always necessarily be enough to save the kid from jail time if/when things get out of hand. There are lots of mentally disabled people in prison. Sooner or later, the DA is going to decide it's better to convict the person than keep sending them to the hospital.