"Occupy" turning to violence

[AdminAssistant]

No, the core of the protest is the undue influence that banks/financial institutions have on our government. The (lack of) regulations, the bailouts, the bonuses, the corruption and greed. That's what started the protest, which is why they chose Wall Street, since it represents the American financial sector.

No doubt that there are protesters who would like to revise the tax code so that the rich were paying a fair percentage. No doubt there are protesters who oppose all national/international corporations. However, there are many that primarily oppose the current incestuous relationship between Banks and Government.

Unfortunately, a handful of loonies are calling attention away from the real issues, primarily by going to the bathroom everywhere and being crazy. The protest needs some actual leadership to define rules and send home the crazy hipsters and trustafarians. The media needs to play along by not giving the attention whores attention and actually covering the issues. But that doesn't play to the partisan bullshit going on right now.

Quit complaining? They have a right to complain. In fact, a Constitutionally protected right to complain. Things in this country are utter shit, especially for twenty-somethings who did what they were told they were 'supposed' to do: acquire student loans, go to college, get good-paying job so that you can pay back loan. Well, now there aren't many jobs, especially jobs that pay well enough so that you can both live and pay back loans.

[Andara Bledin]

So, does the OP have any support to back up the aspersions cast by the existence of the thread?

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[Gravekeeper]

Actually, I can vouch for the urinating and defecating on cop cars. I've seen it reported on multiple major news networks on tv.

Honestly, this will occur at any protest involving people under the age of 50. Regardless of the protest at hand, you're always going to have a few that come out just to party it up and be shit disturbers. Then you have the anarchist types that will literally drive or fly in to cause shit with the crowd as cover.

Thefts happening to those occupying Wall Street. Someone was complaining that their Mac (worth $5,500) was stolen. Their Mac which was made by Apple which is a corporation. And aren't corporations considered "evil" by these occupiers?

I'm not sure how things being stolen from the protestors counts for anything. Working a crowd isn't exactly a new concept for thieves and pick pockets. Especially this kind of crowd, who, by their nature, are carrying lots of nice expensive recording devices to document police brutality with. Which they then keep a live uplink going back at the park so they can get the footage out quick if something really bad happens.

What are these people complaining about? They want the wealth of millionaires and billionaires taken away and distributed to others.

I don't think you understand whats going on here and having your laptop stolen is not even remotely comparable to the economic issues going on in the US.

You can make millions/billions in the US right now and only pay half the income tax of the guy that has to wash dishes for a living. But you can only do it if you already have the money. Basically, the Bush tax cuts slashed the capital gains tax to try and boost JOB CREATORZ ( god I hate that term ) who of course did absolutely nothing but pocket the money and use it to make more money.

But with the capital gains tax slashed, it means you pay only 17% income tax on income you made from investments. As opposed to income you make via your own labour. Essentially, if you already have money in the US you can make more money and only pay half the income tax of people who are earning money through labour ( aka working a job ).

So if you're rich, you get richer and only pay 17% income tax. If you're not rich, you have to earn money from labour, but as a result get taxed more than the dude with 50 million to spare.

See the problem? -.-

[MadMike]

They're learning first hand what happens when the wealth is distributed.

Right, because we all know that "redistribution of wealth" is just wrong. Unless it's being redistributed from the middle class to the wealthy, then it's OK.

[Andara Bledin]

But with the capital gains tax slashed, it means you pay only 17% income tax on income you made from investments. As opposed to income you make via your own labour.

Fun fact: This is exactly the opposite of the intention of the Constitution. We're supposed to be taxing the living shit out of capital gains and taxes on wages are supposed to be absolutely disallowed.

But the government, after having their first attempt struck down, managed to weasel their way around that by making income tax not a tax on wages, but a "luxury tax" using wages as the determining factor, which is a steaming pile of rancid bull feces. If they wanted to institute a luxury tax, they'd just up the taxes on higher value non-essential goods.

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[IDrinkaRum]

Hubs and I are the middle class. We own our own home, in the Washington DC metro area, which is a very expensive area to own anything in. We are NOT upside down on our house. We own 2 cars. Both outright. Paid cash up front for the Honda hubs uses as his commuter car. I drive the Mazda around town and a little highway driving (it doesn't get the greatest mileage but we needed something hubs could fit in when he was 216 pounds heavier than he is now). We finished paying off the Mazda this year.

Even if hubs didn't work for the federal government (and thereby will not say anything about what the government is doing because it's a conflict of interest), we wouldn't be protesting. We wouldn't be occupying anything but our house and our jobs.

I do know people in the middle class who are upside down on their houses. Can barely afford to feed their kids, pay off their cars, provide much of anything. And even they think the occupiers need to do something other than sitting around and complaining about their lot in life. (Quoting what people I know are saying basically).

And I'm just pointing out the irony that these people who are protesting, who are saying it's unfair to them for what's happening because they don't have jobs in "this economy", who can't afford everything they want, to be lugging around a $5,500 laptop. If they have no job/no money/no whatever, how can they be affording an expensive laptop? Was it a present? And if so, from whom? And if they didn't like the corporations (which one did make that laptop) and hate the way banks are operating (which is where the money to buy that laptop was probably stored before it was used to buy it), why did they accept it?

From what I've seen/heard, they don't really know what they are protesting.

[Andara Bledin]

From what I've seen/heard, they don't really know what they are protesting.

The media is doing a very good job of painting that picture.

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[Hyena Dandy]

They don't seem to be really protesting FOR, but I think they are clear on what it is they're protesting AGAINST.

[Panacea]

Seriously?

I didn't think I'd have to post a link considering it's been in the NEWS but... here you go.

[Seriously you people crack me up.

I haven't seen any news articles to back up your outrageous claims of rape, muggings or assaults perpetrated BY OWS protestors. Against, yes.

i mean seriously, it's in the news.
if you really want more links instead of the ones i provided then here.

Seriously, you're starting to sound like a major crank. You're credibility has dropped to zero.

wearing cammies and carrying an AR?

O my. ... wait that's legal.

So why are you complaining?

What are these people complaining about? They want the wealth of millionaires and billionaires taken away and distributed to others. And I doubt they'd care if it was done legally or not. .

That's not what the OWS protestors want. They don't want to take anyone's money away. They just want systems to be fair. They want corporations to have to play by the same rules the rest of us do. They want Main Street to get a bailout, too.

Corporations by their nature are not evil, nor are their products. They descend to the level of evil when they use their profits to buy influence in Washington . . . that's what has the protestors upset.

[Hyena Dandy]

That's what some want, others want wealth totally redistributed. I think its a bit like a Rorschach test. You see what YOU want in it. That's part of what makes it so powerful, since they don't have a list of specific demands/desires.

More than anything else, they remind me of the "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" scene. They don't know how to fix it, but they sure as hell know something's wrong. And its good to let people know, because they're drawing serious national attention to what's wrong. The fact that they have no set list of what they're protesting FOR, only what they're protesting AGAINST, lets them draw a base from everywhere. It gives them a lot of strength as a movement. They tap into the cultural zeitgeist, as it were. They speak to EVERYONE.

I suspect once they solidify a list, their numbers will go down a little. But the ones who stay on will have a better chance of accomplishing something.

I went down to the Boston occupiers recently to donate some clothes. I asked people what it was they wanted, and the answers were all over the place. More restrictions on banks, all student loans should be forgiven, funding for the arts, banning banks operating in more than one state, harsher corporate rules in Delaware, and yes, some DID want the wealthiest to have to give over their wealth. One wanted the computer building company (that one company, the really shady one) to be declared a terrorist group.

The problem is you can't SAY this is what they OWS protestors REALLY want because they can't agree. In the same way, you can't say one person is REALLY an OWS protestor and they other isn't because they don't have qualifications. From what I understand, all you need to be an OWS protestor is to be occupying whatever the area is in your city. The lack of agreement gives them strength, but it also prevents you from saying "This is what they REALLY want."

[Andara Bledin]

I'd say that they all want change.

"Because the status is not quo. The world is a mess..."

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[Hyena Dandy]

Well, yes. They are protesting AGAINST the way things are, but they haven't solidified an alternative. Which is not the worst thing in the world, honestly. But it means that its very hard to say "These people aren't REAL Occupiers, the REAL Occupiers want X"

[Nyoibo]

The whole idea of OWS was to bring peoples attention to what's going on with banks and such, as to why they're protesting This is an interesting read, that and also that government seems to only legislate in favour of that top percentile is what the protests are trying to bring attention to.

[Greenday]

That's not what the OWS protestors want. They don't want to take anyone's money away.

Unfortunately, that's just plain not true. There are plenty of people in movement who DO just want other people's money without having to earn it. Because they are entitled to whatever they want.

[Andara Bledin]

Unfortunately, that's just plain not true. There are plenty of people in movement who DO just want other people's money without having to earn it. Because they are entitled to whatever they want.

Yeah, 'cause wanting the top earners to pay an equitable percentage of their income in line with the percentages paid by those at the bottom is "taking people's money away."

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