"Occupy" turning to violence

[Andara Bledin]

GW Bush used these laws to make his fortune. He used the power of eminent domain to seize land the owners did not want to sell to build football stadiums in Texas. (He didn't get rich as an oilman; he failed at that).

Anaheim pulled this on the family of some kids I knew in high school.

Their father or uncle (or both, perhaps) owned one of the last strawberry field that was part of the same block of land that Disneyland sits upon. They had been there pretty much since the end of WWII and had no interest in selling so the city essentially stole their land from them (giving them an insult of a sale price) and gave it to Disney.

And these sorts of actions are precisely the types of things that Occupy is protesting.

^-.-^

[Gravekeeper]

Perhaps this will help explain.

As we seem to be having some trouble understanding in this thread. -.-

[Rapscallion]

Unfortunately, that's just plain not true. There are plenty of people in movement who DO just want other people's money without having to earn it. Because they are entitled to whatever they want.

Would it be possible for you to name ten of these people?

Rapscallion

[Gravekeeper]

Would it be possible for you to name ten of these people?

I'm assuming they were all carefully selected to fit the required media narrative.

With a movement of this size I'm sure I could canvas it with a camera and find the one crazy guy that thinks we can drill for oil in his rectum. The next day the headlines would be "Occupy Wall Street Calls For Recal Excretions To Be Alternative Fuel Source".

[Sleepwalker]

Man, this guy must be fun to split pizza with.

[mikoyan29]

Having to pay $500,000 while someone else only has to pay 1/10 of that is not fair.

It's the magic of percentages. They are both paying the same rate. It's just that one happens to make way more than the other.

[bara]

Perhaps this will help explain.

As we seem to be having some trouble understanding in this thread. -.-

I have to be honest Gravekeeper, you seem to be able to more eloquently express my opinion than I can.

Thanks

[KabeRinnaul]

Having to pay $500,000 while someone else only has to pay 1/10 of that is not fair.

Okay, so out of curiosity, I decided to try this idea out. How can our country handle a flat income tax? Not a flat tax rate, that's way easier to work out. But actually using Greenday's idea that for one person to pay a different amount than any other is unfair.

So, the US federal budget had about $2.16 trillion in tax revenue last year. 42% of that came from individual income tax, which gives us $907.2 billion. Now, we have about 140.5 million people who filed taxes in this country in 2009 (about 45.77% of our population at the time). Some quick division give us the result that each citizen need pay only $6,455.46 per year in flat income tax to maintain our current federal tax income.

...but wait! According to the IRS numbers, over 17 million of those people reported an income below $7,000 a year. Let's adjust our final total there.

Okay, if we give that bunch a free pass because they couldn't possibly afford these taxes, then we're only paying $7364.50. Hm. But we included people with an income from $7,000-$9,000. Now they can't afford it either. So let's cut that group out...

And we're paying a mere $7677.39 in taxes. Which I'm sure wouldn't put an undue hardship on anyone. And 118,165,220 paying that amount while 22,366,895 pay nothing is more fair and equitable than the entire group paying different proportions.

(Tax numbers from IRS.gov, population numbers from Wikipedia)

[Gravekeeper]

I have to be honest Gravekeeper, you seem to be able to more eloquently express my opinion than I can.

I have a lot of free time in the middle of my shift. >.>

Okay, so out of curiosity, I decided to try this idea out. How can our country handle a flat income tax?

I don't think any country really could handle a flat income tax. You simply either wouldn't be left with enough money to run the government and/or the peasants would be revolting. Its just not viable, as the numbers prove there.

Besides, the idea that the system is unfair to the wealthy is completely false. Wealthier individuals and corporations may pay more money in taxes, but they also benefit more from, have more say in and use more of government services than an individual.

[Boozy]

Besides, the idea that the system is unfair to the wealthy is completely false. Wealthier individuals and corporations may pay more money in taxes, but they also benefit more from, have more say in and use more of government services than an individual.

I find that many wealthy people congratulate themselves for their successes and blame the government for their failures. They honestly don't see how they owe their financial success to anyone but themselves.

They can clearly see the tens of thousands of dollars they paid in taxes last year, because they wrote the cheque. But the benefits they received from the government to get them to this point happened behind the scenes. The after-school program their parents put them in. The heavy subsidization of their post-secondary education. The infrastructure that allows their business to be profitable. The cheap labour they hire. The low taxes on investment gains. Etc, etc, etc.

[Gravekeeper]

The after-school program their parents put them in. The heavy subsidization of their post-secondary education. The infrastructure that allows their business to be profitable. The cheap labour they hire. The low taxes on investment gains. Etc, etc, etc.

The frothing horde of lobbyists they have to ensure any potentially troublesome laws or regulations are curtailed or watered down to nothing. -.-

[kiwi]

Just because they don't use those exact words doesn't mean it's not what they mean. These people hate capitalism. We don't live in a utopia. We don't live in a pure communist society and quite frankly, I'm glad. Otherwise, why would I work twelve hour days seven days a week? What incentive would I have? This is life as we know it and they are complaining that it's not fair.

Source?

So the only options are Captalism or a pure communist society?

[Greenday]

Source?

So the only options are Captalism or a pure communist society?

They are protesting Capitalism. That would mean they don't like it at the very least.

[Panacea]

They are protesting Capitalism. That would mean they don't like it at the very least.

Not quite. They are protesting the excesses of capitalism. While there are a few individuals in the movement who are socialists or even communists, the vast majority of the movement is not calling for an end to free market capitalism but rather for the government to stop rigging the rules in favor of the big corporations.

[kiwi]

They are protesting Capitalism. That would mean they don't like it at the very least.

It still isn't an either or, there are other options than capitalism OR communism. You can't make a blanket statement saying they all hate capitalism. If I was anywhere near civilisation I would be right there with them and I abosolutely believe that captilism is the best economic organization for a modern economy.

I do not however believe in capatlism without government restrictions on it.

But go right ahead, call me a pinko hippie commie if you like