"Occupy" turning to violence

[Duelist925]

The mental gymnastics being used to protect the protesters' image is astounding. What other groups do does not excuse protesters who do violent things. The fact that not everyone is violent doesn't excuse those protesters who do commit violent acts.

One of my friends is at an Occupy protest not in Oakland. He said other than a lot of drug use and sexual assaults, it's not too bad lol.

Its not so much mental gymnastics, as it is critical thinking. Yes, there has been violence. No one is denying this. What most of us are saying, is the violence is nowhere near what many people are claiming it to be, and is, in face, extraordinarily under par as far as large gathers are concerned. So far, you've gotten less violence than you'd see at a freaking rock concert or sporting event. Even then, the violence committed is not condoned by anyone you might consider a leader of the occupy movement.

And at that, there has been more violence directed at the protesters, than the protesters have committed themselves.

[Hyena Dandy]

The fact that not everyone is violent doesn't excuse those protesters who do commit violent acts.

Now I'm getting confused. I think I've lost the thread of the debate. Was someone claiming violence never happened at all?


A-hem.

Could we please all restate our positions

If I'm confused, someone else might be too.

[Gravekeeper]

The mental gymnastics being used to protect the protesters' image is astounding. What other groups do does not excuse protesters who do violent things. The fact that not everyone is violent doesn't excuse those protesters who do commit violent acts.

The mental gymnastics being used to smear their image are equally if not more astounding, frankly. You've been given tons of evidence demonstrating police violence and that by and large the protestors have been completely peaceful for near 2 months. Yet you're still desperately clinging to your opinion on the matter.

As for Oakland, to be bluntly honest, you can't punch someone in the face over and over then when they finally take a swing back go "OMG WHY ARE YOU BEING SO VIOLENT?!". Oakland is a shitstorm completely of the city's own making. They've handled the crowd amazingly wrong over and over again. Honestly its impressive that this is all thats happened and its taken this long to occur.

[Canarr]

You're kidding me right? Attacking news reporting vans. Rum posted a link about violence by protesters. Did you not read that?

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/11/03/402...nce-after.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-violent.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ISXqzg99s For those who think reading or following the news is too tough. Cops being hit with paint. Appears to be glass bottles thrown at cops. Injured cops.

Can't wait to hear why none of those are valid!

So, suddenly you can watch Youtube videos? Or those that low DL rate you've got only affect videos that go against your position?

From what I gather from the links you've posted, there were 7,000 people in the march in Oakland. 3,000 of them blocked the port, and how many of those turned violent?

Oakland Police Chief Howard Jordan told CBS San Francisco that the vandalism was caused by up to 70 anarchists 'bent on creating problems'.

70. Damn, but they've got a serious problem there. Time to call in the National Guard!

[IDrinkaRum]

Official list of Occupy Wall Street's supporters, sponsors, and sympathizers

Not surprised there is violence in any of the occupy protests.

[Canarr]

Okay, this is just brillant...

So, the American Nazi Party supports OWS...

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201110180001

The Latest Desperate Smear Of Occupy Wall Street Protests: The Nazis Like Them

October 18, 2011 1:49 am ET by Todd Gregory


The American Nazi Party put out a statement on Thursday that was supportive of the Occupy Wall Street protests. Rocky Suhayda, the party's chairman, said, "My heart is right there with these people."

The right-wing blogosphere saw an opportunity to associate the protests with Nazis, and the pile-on began. The Blaze quoted the statement, as did Fox Nation and Gateway Pundit blogger Jim Hoft.

On the Monday edition of Fox News' flagship "straight news" program Special Report, anchor Bret Baier also treated this endorsement as if it were significant:

Don't worry about any violence from them; any of their brain-dead followers that actually might show up will be too occupied with the Communist Party thugs; and, of course, with the Revolutionary Guard of Iran...

[Hyena Dandy]

So they're being supported by the American Nazi Party.

You know what else the American Nazi Party supports?

SANDWICHES! Fuck 'em.

[Canarr]

The sandwiches, or the Nazis?

And, um... since I mentioned Nazis, does that mean Occam's Razor will be applied?

[Nyoibo]

The sandwiches, or the Nazis?

And, um... since I mentioned Nazis, does that mean Occam's Razor will be applied?

I don't think so, but if you'd mentioned Hitler we'd be straying into Godwins territory.

[Hyena Dandy]

The sandwiches, or the Nazis?

And, um... since I mentioned Nazis, does that mean Occam's Razor will be applied?

Well, I'm not gonna fuck any Nazis...

[Canarr]

I don't think so, but if you'd mentioned Hitler we'd be straying into Godwins territory.

Dammit! Fouled up my own punchline!

[Gravekeeper]

Official list of Occupy Wall Street's supporters, sponsors, and sympathizers

Not surprised there is violence in any of the occupy protests.

You can't be serious. So you're going to ignore all evidence to the contrary and go with the hilariously awful guilt by association attack that's so blatantly partisan it has no place in any real discussion? You can't possible subscribe to this sort of logic. ><

Not only did you just Godwin us, but per your logic, many of us are Nazis too. In fact we'd be Radical Islamic Nazi Commie Obama Supporters.

RINCOS unite?

[Skunkle]

I'll be brief - as concise as I can - with my thoughts.

The Oakland protest has obviously had some minor violence from some individual people somewhere in the masses. I don't believe these were necessarily Occupy supporters, and I don't necessarily believe they weren't. But the Occupy group in general has been saying, in effect, "Yes, violence is happening sometimes. No, we don't support that, and we don't want that." Being a group with no clear leaders, it's nigh-impossible for them to curtail it. Which is unfortunate.

A FEW of the police have done some really awful, stupid things. I don't think the4se are supported by the police on the whole, but at the same time, they do seem to be trying to cover their butts and deny anything was done, incorrectly or otherwise. I think both sides had some fault in what happened, but I think that, in both cases, it comes down to individuals. It still sucks.

Having watched the footage, it's clear to me that an officer gently lobbed a flashbang with the intent of landing it in the middle of the group, who were crowding around an injured man and neither paying much attention to nor advancing on the riot cops behind the barricades. If I had to give an opinion of WHY, I'd say my guess would be that the guy was thinking, "Screw these guys, I'm gonna make a BIG POINT!" Whoever this is, I doubt his coworkers supported the move, but I think he should be reprimanded with more than a slap on the wrist. Chances are, he knew quite well that flashbangs can and will do lethal damage at close range, and it's crystal-clear in the footage that he gave it a gentle toss, landing it right in the middle of the group - in my opinion not aiming for anyone specifically, but fully expecting it to freak them out/piss them off - perhaps knowing, perhaps forgetting that the results could be much worse. I think "I'm sick of this sit-in crap! F*ck you! F*CK you!!" can totally override all other thought.

I don't see Occupy groups doing any violence of note anywhere else. Theft> occasional sexual assault? Yes, it's horrible, but it both is and isn't Occupy. It isn't the Occupy people specifically; it IS the fact that a large group is holding a large space, which gives the sneaky pickpockets and troublemakers a good cover. Slip in, shout a bit, grab a wallet or phone or three hold someone's sign, chat people up about politics, grab a girl, shout a bit more... Any big mob attracts pricks.

I completely support Occupy. I don't think the majority, or even 95% of them, want the weal;thy top be forced to give up their money. The media loves that angle. Why? Because it's juicy. It's shocking. That's what general news looks for. These people may all have varying goals, but an end to corporatism - the rules and regulations that both help the top stay the top and the bottom not leave the bottom - are the problem. In the far past, anyone willing to work their ass off could make it big. These days, most people who start on the bottom and work like hell do NOT climb - because those at the top have stacked the odds. I think the thinking in this is along the lines of, "The more people there at the top, the less money and power there is for each individual. If I can keep less people from getting where I am, I can insure that I'll get father in less time."

The nazis support Occupy? I'm not surprised - but not because I think they mesh. I don't. Occupy is gaining speed, numbers and notice. Political parties will try to co-ops them to ride their coattails. Groups will step up to say "I support the Occupiers", in order to get notoriety for being connected. Some of these may know that Occupy, having no solid leadership, will have a difficult time really getting the message out that while, let's say the nazis, claim to support them, they don't support the nazis - hoping that they'll get that free ride to fame and the movement can't/won't really be able to stop them from doing so. People are going to offer support, and some of the Occupiers will take it. The lack of leadership is both Occupy's strongest support and its weakest link.

[Peppergirl]

So, suddenly you can watch Youtube videos? Or those that low DL rate you've got only affect videos that go against your position?

To be fair, I'm sure there's other areas within his unit that Greenday can access that provide better DL speed. I know that he's advised that in his home area, the DL speeds are ridiculously slow.

GD and I don't always see eye-to-eye, but he's never, to my knowledge, been dishonest. Not really fair to insinuate otherwise.

[Skunkle]

I'll absolutely give Greenday a pass on Youtube vids. Sometimes he's got connection, sometimes he doesn't, I highly doubt he's covering anything. In fact, I'll say I'm certain.