Are the ocuppier protestors naive?

[Rageaholic]

Then there are going to be a lot of unemployed doctors if they stop taking insurance.

Yup, they're shooting themselves in the foot by not taking insurance.

[Hyena Dandy]

Perhaps another way that they're naive:

I think they severely overestimate how much sway they have. That is, they seem to think the majority of Americans are supporting them. I see a lot of things coming from protestors who seem to think they could actually get 99% of Americans to do what they say. There's a difference between fighting for the 99% and speaking for them.

For the most part, even a lot of people who support them don't really go out of their WAY to support them. Its like I've said before, Apathy is killing America.

[HYHYBT]

Then there are the doctors who are not accepting Medicare/Medicaid any longer. My father is going to have to find a new Primary Care doctor come the new year as the doctor doesn't accept Medicare.

My dad is a general practitioner with his own practice, and has talked about that quite a lot. Medicaid pays less per visit than it costs to treat the patient, by the time you add everything up. Medicare pays enough to keep the business running... so far. But every few months they threaten a cut that would put their payments below cost (I think the next time is January) and the insurance companies mostly base their payments on what Medicare uses. Medicare also has a habit of stopping payments entirely for weeks or even, in one case, months without explanation, then catching themselves up. Add in the ever-increasing documentation the insurance companies require (as that increases the chances of their finding an excuse not to pay at all) which means seeing not much over half the patients per day as 30 years ago... well, which is worse, financially speaking: operating at a loss, or either cutting back to only those who will pay on their own or shutting down entirely?

[mikoyan29]

Many of the laws that have been enacted in the early 20th Century have served to protect capitalism from its own excesses. It seems like the past 30 years have been spent to whittle away at those laws.

[Panacea]

Good luck with finding doctors who are taking insurance anymore. Obamacare might fully be coming in 2014 (barring the states breaking it apart/down), but doctors are finding loopholes to get out it. Mainly by not accepting insurance. At all.

Yes, there are doctors out there who have decided rather than go with Obamacare (and the doctors I've talked to in different specialties - cardiology, pulminology, developmental pediatrics, etc. - all object to Obamacare) they are saying they are no longer going to accept insurance.

There's a commonality between the specialties you cite.

They are all expensive specialists who are notorious for some of the most abusive practices in medicine when it comes to high cost, unnecessary care. They're the ones whom health care reform is targeting when it talks about "best practices." So yeah, they stand to lose money.

Saying they will refuse to accept insurance is a bluff, though. It's their bread and butter. They have to accept insurance to make a living because very few of their patients can afford to pay cash. They just think (falsely) if they make enough noise they can scare the public into forcing the government to back down.

They've been making these threats for years and it's not working.

Then there are the doctors who are not accepting Medicare/Medicaid any longer. My father is going to have to find a new Primary Care doctor come the new year as the doctor doesn't accept Medicare.

Medicaid hasn't adequately reimbursed for decades, and it is indeed hard to find doctors that will take it. That is nothing new, and has nothing to do with health care reform.

Refusing to take Medicare is another bluff. Most doctors and hospitals make their living off Medicare, and the coming reimbursement changes, again, will affect high prices specialties who over treat with the wrong treatments. Primary care providers (family practice, OB/GYNs, pediatricians) will actually make MORE under the new reimbursement rates.

I think the Occupy Wall Street people need to do something, anything other than sit around a park, waving signs, praising the glories of a mythical utopia that has never been found in the world. They are naive.

They are doing something. They're bringing attention to the discontent of the masses and calling for change. However, our unresponsive government is unwilling to seriously discuss change and our uncaring corporations aren't going to make changes until their customers force them to (example, BoA's recent debit fee debacle). They're not naive. If they were, the movement wouldn't have spread world wide.

People escaped Russia (and other countries) to come to America. Because of the capitalist society we have. Where you can come and make something of yourself. America, believe it or not, is a good country.

Yes, America is a good country. But we don't have all the answers and other countries have very good ideas that we are unwilling to try simply because we didn't think of them first. We are also a very arrogant country.

It's just a shame people are too blind, too selfish, and want everything now, now, now without working for it first.

I hope someday to become part of the 1%. And you know what? In this country, I can aspire to it. I can work for it. And I have the freedom to do that. Anyone who wants to stand in my way, and say "no", those who are wealthy already and want Americans to all of a sudden share the wealth? They are the most selfish of all. "See! I made all this money. But none of you can. I don't want you succeeding. I want to keep you down." And that is bad.

You should understand that most of the 1% didn't work for their wealth. They inherited it or got a job to manage it or got it by running their corporations into the ground. True entrepreneurs like Steve Jobs are the exception, not the rule.

I really don't see why I should bail out a guy (Jaime Daimon) who ran his company into the ground when no one is willing to bail ME out.

[Gravekeeper]

All I got from that was that some ex-Soviets have no idea what Socialism really is anymore than some Americans. -.-

I'm really curious, however, as to what exactly you guys think the protestors are suppose to do? Start lynching bankers? Burn down the city? If they're not going to change anything by protesting, what would you have them do?

Seriously, do you have a better idea?

[Hyena Dandy]

All I got from that was that some ex-Soviets have no idea what Socialism really is anymore than some Americans. -.-

Probably because they lived in a country that insisted it was socialist. I'd be afraid of socialism if I was in a country that SAID it was socialist, and was totalitarian and crazy. They would use similar language as well. It would feel all to familiar to me, so I kind of give ex-soviets a pass on crazy anti-socialism.

[Gravekeeper]

They would use similar language as well. It would feel all to familiar to me, so I kind of give ex-soviets a pass on crazy anti-socialism.

He can have a pass up until he starts doing interviews, then he's fair game. ;p

[Hyena Dandy]

He can have a pass up until he starts doing interviews, then he's fair game. ;p

Eh, I just ignore them. I mean, he probably thinks that he's right, but for a less stupid reason.

[Racket_Man]

just to give another example of health care costs:

I am prone to Kidney stones. I average an attack about every 4 - 6 years no matter what I do or do not do

12 years ago I did a trip to the ER with no insurance (unemployed at the time and was not eligible for state Medicare coverage at the time). now I do not have the break down of that particular visit BUT in total I paid around $1500 for that little episode. this included the ER, doctor, X-rays, radiologist and drugs. I wan in the ER about 5+ hours

a year ago I had a very SEVER attack. so one more trip to the ER with no insurance. yes my employer DOES offer "medical/health" insurance converage BUT it is SO restrictive and has so many $$ limits (also no ER or drug coverage) that it is almost like not even HAVING insurance.

here is a detailed breakdown for my 4 hours spent in the ER
drugs + IV : $335 (there were 3 seperate pharamacy entries)
labwork (not sure what this was) : $315
just walking into the ER and using the service : $1335
CAT scan (not X-rays): $2045
ER Doctor: $400
Radiologist : 655
total AFTER getting paying-it-yourself discounts $5085

yeah $5k of out-of-pocket expences that I really did not need to spend over the last year.

[Gravekeeper]

Conversely, being Canadian, my medical bills for the last 5 years, including my back injuries, is $125. And that was for my cat's vet bill.

[Andara Bledin]

So, it's not that the protesters are naive, but that the interviewer is ignorant.

Color me unsurprised.

^-.-^

[bara]

First off.. its Fox news so that takes a lot of credibility as news source and places slightly higher informational value than the Onion but far less entertaining.

Secondly, it seems obvious to me this guy trolled until he found the dumbest people he could and then interviewed them.

Not singling Fox out, most major news agencies do this no matter how 'un-biased' they say they are. But Fox (at least to me) is the best/worst at it with CNN being a close second.

Sadly, the best American news I can find... BBC.