UC Davis pepper sprays seated protestors

[Sleepwalker]

Many universities ARE essentially cities. The sheer size of them, their faculty, students and support staff makes them a power unto themselves.

The university at Berkeley, for example, has begun supplanting the city itself. Student housing, etc, push out non uni affiliated residents. That is aside from the enormous amount of space in the city the actual, literal university takes up.

That aside, the chancellor is responsible for emergency response plans, so blaming her is like sacking her for deaths due to poor fire evacuation policies.

She called the police in to remove the students, she is responsible for what happened, and her response has been entirely unrepentant.

[Seifer]

In spite of the actions of some police officers lately, most police officers in the United States are professional, care about their communities, and are generally good people....

Unfortunately there are enough bad cops out there that they make the rest of the police force look like an infected 'roid. People see video of certain officers going WAY over the line (i.e. beating someone who is already in handcuffs, blaming an accident on a drunk driver, even though the OFFICER was the one who actually caused the accident, etc), and then they never hear about any serious consequences for the officer. How many times are cops accused of unlawful or unwarranted behavior, given a week or two of paid leave (YAY a paid vacation!) and then getting right back to their job with hardly a slap on the wrist? It infuriates people, and for good reason.

If the bad cops were actually punished instead of receiving a stern talking-to and having their hair tousled by a higher-up, maybe the decent police officers could take the lime-light.

[Gravekeeper]

If the bad cops were actually punished instead of receiving a stern talking-to and having their hair tousled by a higher-up, maybe the decent police officers could take the lime-light.

Half the problem is when cops do something bad, the investigation often times appears to be handled by other cops in the exact same district. When its not, the investigators are the enemy rather than the bad cop.

Internal Affairs is protrayed as the villain in practically every single movie and TV show ever made that involves cops. That our plucky department has to stand up too by sticking up for their fellows.

[FArchivist]

And now the truth is out: UC Davis chancellor: Police defied my orders by using pepper spray Lt. Pike put on paid administrative leave, current scuttlebutt is that there will be firings. Definitely going to be an investigation. Might even see some jail time involved.

[Panacea]

And now the truth is out: UC Davis chancellor: Police defied my orders by using pepper spray Lt. Pike put on paid administrative leave, current scuttlebutt is that there will be firings. Definitely going to be an investigation. Might even see some jail time involved.

OK, chancellor, I call BULLSHIT on this. She's just trying to save her own skin by sacrificing the cops.

If she'd really given such an order she would have said so from the get go. And the cops would not have done what they did.

[Greenday]

OK, chancellor, I call BULLSHIT on this. She's just trying to save her own skin by sacrificing the cops.

If she'd really given such an order she would have said so from the get go. And the cops would not have done what they did.

And then people would still have responded like you did.

[Seifer]

And then people would still have responded like you did.

The chancellor's story really does sound like bullshit. Didn't she supposedly walk by during the "proceedings" (kids getting pepper sprayed in the face) and not say anything? If she had really given the police such an order, it would have been in her best interest to order them to stop and remove themselves from the situation.

[BlaqueKatt]

and here we have the UNCUT video, where Lt. Pike goes down the line of protestors telling each one "you do understand that if you don't move you will be subject to force, the pepperball guns will be deployed" they all acknowledge and do not move. I am not saying it was right or the correct thing to do, but it is now shown that they WERE authorized to use force, and it wasn't just he walked up and started spraying them with no warning as previous videos have misrepresented.

I do believe this was released due to the chancellor's attempting to save herself by throwing Lt. Pike under the bus.

What makes me angry is that the students have no right to defend themselves under the law.

so this, yeah, they were informed what the consequences of their actions would be, they were given the option of leave or be peppersprayed, they made their choice, and the edited vidoe made them heroes and martyrs, which they really are not from the full video.

[Panacea]

And then people would still have responded like you did.

Maybe other people would, but not me. I'm criticizing her for being a coward and throwing her cops under the bus rather than being a leader and telling the truth about what really happened.

Had she said, "I approved this use of force," from the outset, I would have criticized her for making the wrong decision but I would not be calling BS on what she did OR calling her out for having no character or moral compass.

[Gravekeeper]

Ok, so:

"On November 21, Katehi attended a large student protest, and after listening to their statements, said she was there to apologize. On the following day, she stated that the police had gone against her specific orders to act peacefully when removing tents or equipment, and not to proceed if there were too many students, and she had not approved the police use of riot gear. At at a town hall meeting, she told around 1,000 students, "I want to unequivocally apologize to the entire community for the appalling use of pepper spray. I will do everything in my power to make sure nothing like that ever happens again." She said, "My instructions were for no arrests and no police force. I explicitly directed the chief of police that violence should be avoided at all costs.""

So according to her, she told the cops to remove the protestors, but told them to be as peaceful as possible, not to use pepperspray, not to arrest anyone, not to wear riot gear and not to do anything at all if there were a lot of students? .....What? She's saying she authorized the use of the police force but sent them down there to do what exactly? Ask nicely and if they said no, shrug and go "Oh well" and leave?

That's kinda hard to swallow.

[Panacea]

Ok, so:

"On November 21, Katehi attended a large student protest, and after listening to their statements, said she was there to apologize. On the following day, she stated that the police had gone against her specific orders to act peacefully when removing tents or equipment, and not to proceed if there were too many students, and she had not approved the police use of riot gear.

She can't tell the police not to use equipment to preserve their own safety. Riot gear is as much about protecting the cop as it is enforcing the law. There's nothing inappropriate about its use; those protests could easily escalate into violence, and then you're stuck.

But I don't believe her story one little bit, and I'm sure Lt. Parks is recording all her silly statements for his lawsuit against her.

[Seifer]

so this, yeah, they were informed what the consequences of their actions would be, they were given the option of leave or be peppersprayed, they made their choice, and the edited vidoe made them heroes and martyrs, which they really are not from the full video.

So because they were warned they have to, by law, sit and let someone spray pepper spray in their faces? Even so much as grabbing an officer's arm or pushing them away from you in self-defense is considered assault on a police officer.

I still disagree with trying to force them to move in the first place. Tear down their tents, sure, whatever. However, I still believe that students have the right to sit in the quad of their own college campus. People could still get around them, life could continue as normal - they weren't hurting anyone or anything. However, the crowd of spectators standing around them is a different story.

I'm curious as to why the crowd was chanting, "Let them go and we'll let you leave" to the police. Did they mean leave the protestors alone and let them remain sitting on the sidewalk? Personally, if the crowd was blocking in the police officers and refusing to let them leave the area, then the crowd was the biggest threat at the time, not the protestors. :/ I wonder how things would have progressed if the police had used riot tools to break up the crowd?

[Shangri-laschild]

I am not saying it was right or the correct thing to do, but it is now shown that they WERE authorized to use force, and it wasn't just he walked up and started spraying them with no warning as previous videos have misrepresented.

This doesn't mean that they were authorized by someone above them, just that it was premeditated.

She's saying she authorized the use of the police force but sent them down there to do what exactly? Ask nicely and if they said no, shrug and go "Oh well" and leave?

That's kinda hard to swallow.

While I am leaning towards the theory that she is lying, having heard some of the issues that come from non police people who are higher up the food chain (people who work with the city or school administrators) I can totally see that kind of thing happening.

On the subject of things that give people a worse impression, sometimes those non police people above the officers can do just as much harm as bad officers. The city police recently arrested someone and there was a huge fuss about how he was beaten up while handcuffed and how the police ran his car into a house. The problem is, the police video showed a different story. One of the city officials wouldn't let the police release the video at first thought. I think it was city official anyway, I just know that they were not in the police department itself but had the authority to hold back the video from the public. It turns out that this kid was speeding, ran several stop signs (some after the police were chasing) and then jumped from his moving vehicle in order to run. His car hit a house after that. He was tackled but the second the cuffs are on there is no scuffle and he went willingly at that point. It turned out his dad told him flat out never to stop for the police ever. The media situation turned around quite a bit when the video was finally released but there was already a lot of damage done honestly as far as public perception. That same official flipped out about why batons had been used and the kid had been beat up and such. Seeing as how batons were never used, I don't know why this was brought up. I just love it when people at the top get side B's story before yelling at side B.

[BlaqueKatt]

So because they were warned they have to, by law, sit and let someone spray pepper spray in their faces? Even so much as grabbing an officer's arm or pushing them away from you in self-defense is considered assault on a police officer.

because they chose to refuse a LAWFUL order. They were made aware what the consequences would be, they CHOSE those consequences. It's not self defense if you are given a legal option to avoid it and choose to not do so.

I still disagree with trying to force them to move in the first place. Tear down their tents, sure, whatever. However, I still believe that students have the right to sit in the quad of their own college campus.

really they own the campus, they have their names on the land deed? No, than it's private property, and if you are asked to leave(which they were), student or not, you are then committing a crime, known as trespassing.

[MadMike]

because they chose to refuse a LAWFUL order. They were made aware what the consequences would be, they CHOSE those consequences. It's not self defense if you are given a legal option to avoid it and choose to not do so.

So if a cop says "Show me your identification or I'll shoot you", and you refuse to show it to him, it's OK for him to shoot you?