BBC Expert: Strikers Should Be Executed In Front Of Their Families

[FArchivist]

[Source]


Personal Commentary: I see that the UK is doing a good job of absorbing the lessons of the current conservative factions of the USA...not that this is new. Previous dodgy comments by Clarkson shows that he's bought into the Daily Fail conceit that the BBC indulges in "PC gone mad". He argues that for every straight white male the BBC feels the need to balance them with "a black Muslim lesbian". And he likes to rant about Shariah Law. Makes him not that far off from Pamela Geller, Glenn Beck, Hermain Cain, Newt Gingrich, Jim DeMint, and other leaders of conservative America.

[the_std]

Uh... Even without reading the article or anything else about this situation, Jeremy Clarkson has built a career and reputation out of being snide and sarcastic. I would take ANYTHING he says with a gigantic grain of salt, if not the whole mine.

[FArchivist]

Uh... Even without reading the article or anything else about this situation, Jeremy Clarkson has built a career and reputation out of being snide and sarcastic. I would take ANYTHING he says with a gigantic grain of salt, if not the whole mine.

I was unaware that being snide and sarcastic excuses one from being called out for hateful speech. I'll have to remember that at work; I can call the African-Americans "n----" and make jokes about watermelon and fried chicken, so long as I'm snide and sarcastic. Good to know.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Eerily reminiscent of the "let them die"/health insurance thing that popped up at one GOP debate and the wild applause for Rick Perry's execution record we saw at another.

What's wrong with these people?

[the_std]

I was unaware that being snide and sarcastic excuses one from being called out for hateful speech. I'll have to remember that at work; I can call the African-Americans "n----" and make jokes about watermelon and fried chicken, so long as I'm snide and sarcastic. Good to know.

Yeah, I totally advocate you being a racist. Thanks for thinking that that is even remotely connected to what I said. Go ahead, try it out! We'll see how far you get.

What I meant was that he was probably not serious. Personally, I am far more willing to let go of someone saying that in jest than I am if they say it seriously. And Jeremy Clarkson says pretty hateful things with a deadpan face pretty often on his show and I, personally, find him to be freaking hilarious. But hey, not everyone is going to think so, and they're allowed to say that.

[FArchivist]

Yeah, I totally advocate you being a racist. Thanks for thinking that that is even remotely connected to what I said. Go ahead, try it out! We'll see how far you get.

Of course. Advocating that strikers be shot in front of their families is in no way equivalent to racism. Not even when people were hung in front of their families for the 'crime' of their skin color.

What I meant was that he was probably not serious.

Considering that he has a record of saying such things in private as well as publicly over a span of 20 years, I think he was being serious. He's been described a virulently bigoted and racist as far back as the 1980s and is well-known for being almost violent on the subject of Labour. As it is, he has apologized (yet again) rather than face being fired from the BBC. Apparently they and their viewers took it quite seriously.

Eerily reminiscent of the "let them die"/health insurance thing that popped up at one GOP debate and the wild applause for Rick Perry's execution record we saw at another.

What's wrong with these people?

It's just humanity. We're a sorry and loathsome bunch and history shows we've always been this way. It's just that we didn't think we were because there wasn't enough information available. Now that we can know the thoughts of someone on the other side of the globe in seconds, we find out how vile we really all are.

[HYHYBT]

I could certainly understand *firing* people for not going to work (which is really all striking is), but if it becomes "work for me or I'll kill you" then that's... slavery? Or a protracted form of mugging, perhaps?

[Andara Bledin]

Anyone who watches the clip and actually believes that the whole "should be shot" thing was anything more than him mocking the BBC's impartiality, particularly with the bit at about "the other side of coin" needs to take a moment and re-tune their critical thinking circuits.

^-.-^

[Rapscallion]

I've heard about this on the radio and the one bit that did strike me as interesting was some commentary that people normally expect him to say something outrageous. The difference in this case is that he did it not in his usual late-ish evening slots, but on a far more mainstream programme. Other than that, his comments were pretty standard for him - designed to appal and elicit a sense of guilty pleasure, but with no real substance behind them.

I saw him once mock global warming and CO2 emmissions. He took a car into a field, pointed the exhaust at a daisy, and leave the engine running. He leant down to it and looked into the camera saying, "See? All cobblers. It loves it!" You just know that he's taking the piss. You know he accepts what is being said about global warming, but he just doesn't care.

Rapscallion

[KabeRinnaul]

Given that I watch Top Gear on a regular basis, I'm mainly wondering why people would take anything he says all that seriously.

You do know his day job involves things like pranking his co-hosts during absurd cross-country races and firing junk cars off an air cannon, right?

[Gravekeeper]

I was unaware that being snide and sarcastic excuses one from being called out for hateful speech. I'll have to remember that at work; I can call the African-Americans "n----" and make jokes about watermelon and fried chicken, so long as I'm snide and sarcastic. Good to know.

That was one Hell of a leap, did you need to check your carry on? -.-

Also, this is that host from Top Gear? Isn't this sort of what he does? It was a joke in horrible taste, sure, but it was still a joke. Its fair to criticize him for making an awful offensive joke, but to think he was actually serious about what he said? Plus he is a public sector employee isn't he? =p

[Hyena Dandy]

Of course. Advocating that strikers be shot in front of their families is in no way equivalent to racism. Not even when people were hung in front of their families for the 'crime' of their skin color.

Right!

These situations are totally analogous. There's absolutely no difference between a comedian making a tasteless joke and reminding someone of the bias they face every day because of something beyond their control. Completely the same thing.

People in labor unions can stop being in a labor union. People in labor unions can leave their jobs. They can sit on the bus without anyone knowing they're in a labor union.

Black people can't do that. They don't get a choice. You can't quit. And if you're black, everyone will always know you're black.

Additional point: Labor unions have had it tough. But there is not a long history of people being murdered for being in labor unions. Yes, you can find examples of people dying because they were in a union. But compare the number of people who've died for being in a union with the number of people who've died for their skin color, and really, no comparison.

[FArchivist]

Other than that, his comments were pretty standard for him - designed to appal and elicit a sense of guilty pleasure, but with no real substance behind them.

And so that's supposed to give him a pass?
Like those Australian folks doing blackface on national TV?

Sorry, if we're going to give him a pass, let's go ahead and give the British National Party a pass. If it's good for Clarkson, it's good for everyone, and so it's good for the BNP. That's equal treatment. That's FAIR. (And balanced!)

Hey, Maggie Thatcher was just being snide and sarcastic when talking about the poor, right? Just taking the piss, eh? Totes makes her viewpoint A-OK. The British public should really just forgive her.

I saw him once mock global warming and CO2 emmissions. He took a car into a field, pointed the exhaust at a daisy, and leave the engine running. He leant down to it and looked into the camera saying, "See? All cobblers. It loves it!" You just know that he's taking the piss. You know he accepts what is being said about global warming, but he just doesn't care.

Uh, no he doesn't. In his books he's gone on several rants about how global warming is just a conspiracy and completely false. He doesn't appear to be lying about that.

These situations are totally analogous. There's absolutely no difference between a comedian making a tasteless joke and reminding someone of the bias they face every day because of something beyond their control. Completely the same thing.

It's an -ism. In this case, classism. Yes, classism and racism are equally bad and should be equally deplored, in accordance with intersectionality of social justice.

Additional point: Labor unions have had it tough. But there is not a long history of people being murdered for being in labor unions.

Uhhhh, I don't know where you get your history from, but yes, labor unions DO have a long history of people being murdered just for being a member. It doesn't happen much in WESTERN society today, but in the Third World it's still fairly commonplace. Can't have the factory workers we're exploiting getting uppity, now can we?

[Hyena Dandy]

Uhhhh, I don't know where you get your history from, but yes, labor unions DO have a long history of people being murdered just for being a member. It doesn't happen much in WESTERN society today, but in the Third World it's still fairly commonplace. Can't have the factory workers we're exploiting getting uppity, now can we?

Your response there so totally ignored what I thought I'd said (the rest of the paragraph) that I was rather worried I had had a brain-fart and forgotten to write it. But as it turned out, you just didn't read it.

You're right, though, there is a lot of that going on in third world countries. And since Britain is a third world country, where this sort of thing happens all the time, it seems reasonable to think that Clarkson is seriously suggesting we shoot them. Instead of playing a comedic character and exaggerating his position. This is like when Dane Cooke talks about wanting to shoot people who annoy him. He doesn't ACTUALLY want to.

It's an -ism. In this case, classism. Yes, classism and racism are equally bad and should be equally deplored, in accordance with intersectionality of social justice.

No, its a joke. About a specific situation. He was not trying to call back to people being murdered for being in unions. He is not a political commentator, he's a comedian and a car guy.

And classism and racism are not the same. You can, though its hard, change your class. You can get a better job. You can win the lottery. I'm not saying its easy, or everyone will, or that therefore we should look down at people of a lower class as 'lazy'. What I am saying is there is a chance at changing. Or at lying. Or at passing unnoticed.

You CANNOT STOP being black. There is no 'whiteness' lottery which will allow you not to stick out in a crowd of white people. There is no amount of skill, luck, perserverence (sp?) or combination of the above that will make black people not black. Black people are the other. They were even more the other in the past, but they are still the other. I live in a fairly white suburban neighborhood. We all notice if there's a black guy walking down the street. We might think this means he's a criminal or doesn't live here, we might just think 'oh, there's a black guy walking down this street'. But we will always NOTICE because you cannot in any way hide your blackness from anyone.

Hey, Maggie Thatcher was just being snide and sarcastic when talking about the poor, right? Just taking the piss, eh? Totes makes her viewpoint A-OK. The British public should really just forgive her.

Sarcastic war, yay!

Okay, that's great, glad you think so. I'm glad you noticed that both Margaret Thatcher and Jeremy Clarkson are comedians famous for something other than politics. Same with the nationalists. They're all comedians who, like Jeremy Clarkson, aren't ACTUALLY involved in politics, and are in no way presenting this as something advisable. When Thatcher was speaking there was no POSSIBLE way that something she said could effect policy.




I look forward to seeing what ridiculous situations you'll construct out of this next post. Maybe something about how I think black people should pretend they're not black. That would be pretty easy.

Sorry if I sound bitter, but your arguments really feel like they're getting ridiculous.

[FArchivist]

You're right, though, there is a lot of that going on in third world countries. And since Britain is a third world country, where this sort of thing happens all the time, it seems reasonable to think that Clarkson is seriously suggesting we shoot them.

Clarkson is an upper-class Brit who's absolutely loaded with white privilege. Such a viewpoint IS typical of the elite class of Western nations, who do view the "inferior classes" as people that it would be nice to shoot if they're not obedient to upper-class dictates. Having grown up in upper-class society, I've had a front-row seat to such shenanigans. Yes, it is reasonable for him to express such an opinion; it's a common one amongst the Western elite.

This is like when Dane Cooke talks about wanting to shoot people who annoy him. He doesn't ACTUALLY want to.

You sure about that?

No, its a joke. About a specific situation. He was not trying to call back to people being murdered for being in unions. He is not a political commentator, he's a comedian and a car guy.

Again, we're back to "It's A Joke, So It's All Good."
It being a joke does not give it a pass. Just as Carlos Mencia making racist jokes about Hispanics does not give him a pass.

You can, though its hard, change your class. You can get a better job. You can win the lottery. I'm not saying its easy, or everyone will, or that therefore we should look down at people of a lower class as 'lazy'. What I am saying is there is a chance at changing. Or at lying. Or at passing unnoticed.

Classism is not about being able to change your class. Totally irrelevent to the subject of classism in social justice and how it intersects on the Ism Axes with other isms, like racism.

If you care to understand, start with Social Justice 101. Then proceed with learning about intersectionality. Then go with classism, intersectionality, and comedy.

You CANNOT STOP being black. There is no 'whiteness' lottery

And we snip right there. You see, by making that comparison, that you can change your class but not your race, you're ranking isms. That defeats the whole purpose of social justice. You're just ending up playing Oppression Olympics, giving a gold medal to the most oppressed. As the links I provided explain, That's Doing It Wrong. When you do that, you are marginalizing classism, making it into a "minor problem" that can be swept under the rug and ignored.

Okay, that's great, glad you think so. I'm glad you noticed that both Margaret Thatcher and Jeremy Clarkson are comedians famous for something other than politics. Same with the nationalists. They're all comedians who, like Jeremy Clarkson, aren't ACTUALLY involved in politics, and are in no way presenting this as something advisable. When Thatcher was speaking there was no POSSIBLE way that something she said could effect policy.

You're still not getting it. It doesn't matter whether a politician or a comedian says it, whether it's a joke or not - it's a statement made from a position of PRIVILEGE. By a person with POWER and INFLUENCE. And yes, celebrities do have privilege, do have power and influence. And people will listen to Clarkson and nod their heads in agreement and it's all OK because it's a joke. Except it's not OK. It's never OK.

I look forward to seeing what ridiculous situations you'll construct out of this next post. Maybe something about how I think black people should pretend they're not black. That would be pretty easy.

No, I just think you're uneducated on social justice theory, like most people in this forum. And I don't have a lot of hope for people here learning either. Still, change has to be implemented somewhere.