Tell kids the truth about Santa = get in trouble.

[Duelist925]

If said belief contradicts with reality as taught in school - every right.

Are you telling me a teacher is not allowed to tell students that both men and women have 24 ribs each, when for example their parents raised them to belief all men have one less because Eve was formed from Adam's 6000 years ago?

Or, to maybe go for a less religious example: Would a teacher not be allowed to tell a student the earth is round if their parents told them to believe it is flat?


There's a clear difference between teaching religion and "un-teaching" religious belief "by accident" because it clashes with the school's syllabus.

EDIT: spelling.

Ok. Fair enough. I have a question tho.

What could she have been teaching that would result in Santa? At that age? What could she have been teaching that would have conflicted with the modern myth of Santa? I'd like to know.

[powerboy]

It's up to the parents to tell the children. Not the teachers

[Rageaholic]

Since this teacher actually made this into a lesson plan, she should be disciplined (not fired). It's not like she accidently spilled the beans. As I said in another thread, I'm not too keen on lying to children and playing with their imagination, but Santa is pretty harmless. Let the kids learn the truth on their own.

[Rageaholic]

But millions of children enjoy the myth and legend. Taking that joy away from them is simply insensitive and uncaring; not traits I'd associate with early education.

These kids have plenty of time to figure out what a shithole world they live in. Taking away someone's happiness for the sake of the "truth" is a horrid thing to do to anyone, especially when that happiness is based on a "falsehood" that harms no one and brings said happiness to the individual at hand.

Such an act is mean spirited and on THAT basis the teacher should be disciplined.

Sort of related, but I had a kindergarten teacher who made us recite this thing about her knowing Santa's number and how she'd call him and tell him not to give us any presents. Not the same obviously, but it was still pretty mean. I don't even think any of this was provoked. She just did it to be "funny".

[Kheldarson]

If said belief contradicts with reality as taught in school - every right.

Are you telling me a teacher is not allowed to tell students that both men and women have 24 ribs each, when for example their parents raised them to belief all men have one less because Eve was formed from Adam's 6000 years ago?

Or, to maybe go for a less religious example: Would a teacher not be allowed to tell a student the earth is round if their parents told them to believe it is flat?


There's a clear difference between teaching religion and "un-teaching" religious belief "by accident" because it clashes with the school's syllabus.

EDIT: spelling.

I'm a History teacher. This means that at a certain point in my curriculum, I'm to teach the religions of the world.

Is it my right at that point to teach my students that everything their parents have taught them about their religions is a lie because science says so? Or that it's all a lie because my religion says so?

No, because that one) overrides parental decisions, which is not my place, two) is disrespectful to the students themselves, and three) pretty much steps over the line separating church and state.

What I can do is teach them how to think critically, present the history of the development of the various religions, detail their belief systems, and then let them make their own conclusions.

Santa is no different. In fact, as I pointed out in another thread, there's a historical basis to Santa. So this teacher was way over the line.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Ridiculous. A teacher's job is to teach the facts, as best as they know, and not to engage in lying to preserve some fairy-tale world view.

This would be a non-issue in my country.

Ok...I'll grant you that the job of a teacher is to teach the facts.

But what if this were a teacher saying that there is no God.

After all there is no hard "hold in your hand" evidence to that fact. Just the belief and the faith of millions (if not billions) of people.

Is it the teacher's place to say "There is no God"?

No it is not. Teaching evolution, teaching string theory to explain why/how the universe came to being, teaching that 2 plus 2 equals 4? Yes. Beliefs are for the parents of the child to deal with.

I don't think that the teacher should be fired...just be re-educated into what a teacher should be teaching and what they should leave to the parents.

[RedRoseSpiral]

I was one of those kids who figured out there was no way that a fat man could fit down my family's dinky little fireplace at a very young age (younger than these kids), so this is kind of an non-issue to me. Plus, I don't plan on celebrating Christmas or telling my kids Santa Clause is real when I have them. They'll hear about the Yule traditions and the solstice like good little pagan babies should.

[fireheart17]

What I can do is teach them how to think critically, present the history of the development of the various religions, detail their belief systems, and then let them make their own conclusions.

Not to derail the thread too much, but if every teacher actually did this, then hopefully we can go a longer way towards tolerance of religions.

I don't think that the teacher should be fired...just be re-educated into what a teacher should be teaching and what they should leave to the parents.

While most of it I can agree on, the part about "what should be left to the parents" is open for interpretation. Some people would rather that sex education be left out of schools, while others would rather see driver education a compulsory part of schooling. (In Australia at least, driver education is usually done privately)

I was one of those kids who figured out there was no way that a fat man could fit down my family's dinky little fireplace at a very young age (younger than these kids), so this is kind of an non-issue to me. Plus, I don't plan on celebrating Christmas or telling my kids Santa Clause is real when I have them. They'll hear about the Yule traditions and the solstice like good little pagan babies should.

We didn't have a fireplace or a chimney. So I kind of figured out at an early age that Santa didn't exist.

One of my friends is also pagan, but she's instilling some of the less religious influences of Christmas in her 3-year-old daughter i.e. having a tree.

[SkullKing]

I look at it this way: what the teacher did was a dumb shit thing to do.

Why? Well certainly, the parents have the right to make those decisions for their own kids, and a public employee has no place in challenging them. It's a valid point brought up by others here. But that's not why I think the teacher did a dumb shit thing.

I think she did a dumb shit thing because she was unnecessarily cruel to those children. Yes, we all know Santa Claus is a modern myth. And yes, it's been commercialized all to hell.

But millions of children enjoy the myth and legend. Taking that joy away from them is simply insensitive and uncaring; not traits I'd associate with early education.

These kids have plenty of time to figure out what a shithole world they live in. Taking away someone's happiness for the sake of the "truth" is a horrid thing to do to anyone, especially when that happiness is based on a "falsehood" that harms no one and brings said happiness to the individual at hand.

Such an act is mean spirited and on THAT basis the teacher should be disciplined.

I completely agree.

To me PERSONALLY santa is no big deal.

But

I have a friend who had a very troubled childhood. One of her happiest and most treasured memories involves the easter bunny. If someone took that away from her before she was ready to let go. I would be very angry.

[Rapscallion]

We are not denying science. My husband is a biochemist. We know science, we accept it as reality. How does Santa clash with reality? Who's to say magic doesn't exist somewhere in the cracks and corners of the world? Part of being a good scientist is keeping an open mind.

If you want to claim magic as an adult, you need to provide proof. If a child claims it, that's endearing - but at some point you become an adult.

I'd view santa in the same way I'd view Harry Potter. It's fiction, but it's attractive to children and it has a moral lesson in there. It's also recognisable as fiction from an adult viewpoint.

Rapscallion

[Boozy]

I'm a History teacher. This means that at a certain point in my curriculum, I'm to teach the religions of the world.

Is it my right at that point to teach my students that everything their parents have taught them about their religions is a lie because science says so? Or that it's all a lie because my religion says so?

Good point, although these are seven and eight year-old children. I doubt comparative religion is on their curriculum.

They are learning how to read, write, colour within the lines, use scissors safely, share with others, and maybe the state capitals.

They'll develop critical thinking skills along the way, and like most children, they will see through the story of Santa Claus in due time. Their first thought upon the realization that a Santa Claus is impossible is unlikely to be, "Everyone I knew LIED to me." It will be more like, "Ha ha, I get the joke now. Nice try, Mom and Dad." In later years, they'll understand why the adults in their lives preserved that fantasy for them, and they'll appreciate that they were so loved.

No teacher should lie to a child, but this was a situation where the topic could have been avoided entirely. The teacher had no reason to bring it up.

[FormerCallingCardRep]

Here is a question for debate on this subject. What should a parent do if a teacher tells a mentally handicapped teen that there is no Santa? This happened with my nephew yesterday. One of his teachers in one of his mainstreamed classes told him that Santa does not exist.

[SkullKing]

Call for disciplinary action.

Does this teacher have any psychological formation that allows him to professionally evaluate if this kind of belief is hindering the teen?

If yes, than he should have talked about it with the parents. so he should be disciplined for not talking to them.

If not he should be harshly disciplined for being insensitive and irresponsible(it could be very well helping him instead of hindering if it made his life happier).

[Rapscallion]

Call for disciplinary action.

Not sure about that. It's a lose-lose situation for the teacher.

Remember this is someone who isn't as emotionally or intellectually advanced advanced as those who are also in the class. Children being children will likely tell them anyway (mainstream class), and the usual vector for not believing in santa comes from ones peers. That means the teacher loses the trust of the teen in question.

Special needs requirements are usually foods to avoid, actions that are triggers, incontinent or not - not does this child believe in santa or not and do the parents want them still to do so.

Answer yes and the other children will do the damage. Answer no and the teacher has no idea what they've been told at home. You canot get away with saying that the teacher would have to discuss it with the parents when asked in the classroom. That would be taken as a 'no'.

I think the teacher was in a shitty position no matter what he or she did.

I'm assuming the reason for saying so was that they were asked.

Rapscallion

[Panacea]

I'm a History teacher. This means that at a certain point in my curriculum, I'm to teach the religions of the world.<snip>

Santa is no different. In fact, as I pointed out in another thread, there's a historical basis to Santa. So this teacher was way over the line.

I'm not sure what grade you teach. In a middle school or high school class, I'm sure that's appropriate.

But this instance is 2nd graders. They get a very rudimentary exposure to history and civics in 2nd grade. That kind of "truth" is probably too early for them.