Is "Santa Claus" lying?

[Rageaholic]

Didn't want to hijack the other thread.

Am I the only one who thinks tricking kids into believing in Santa, Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny is decieving? You're basically taking advantage of their imagination to get them to believe a myth. Since they won't question it until a later age, they'll just go along with it. Now I know those particular myths are pretty harmless, but I remember when I finally put the pieces together and confronted my parents about it. I was incredibly disappointed and felt kind of used. At the same time, it was also fun to believe and put the pieces together on my own. But once I did, all the fun was pretty much gone.

It's one of those things I can see both sides of.

[Kelmon]

No, you're not the only one. I don't see any harm in letting children engage in these things, but I don't see why a superstitious "The easter bunny hid the eggs" is better than the truth.

The fun in finding them will be the same.

There's no belief in the tooth fairy (or boogeymen) in Germany, as far as i know. I don't think anyone feels something is missing.

[guywithashovel]

I had a teacher in high school who thought that allowing kids to believe in stuff like this is lying. He said it was a trust issue, since at one phase in their lives you're saying he does exist, and then later on you say he doesn't exist. He had a young daughter, too, and he said he told her there was no Santa.

My parents let me believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny, and as far as I can see I'm doing okay, relatively speaking.

Part of me thinks the concept of a Santa Claus encourages greed and envy, with the mile-long Christmas lists and "I want this" and "I want that." Of course I probably sound like I'm just quoting a pop psychology book.

[Kheldarson]

I don't have a problem with Santa Claus. But then again, in my house, we celebrated the real one and the more popular version.

Santa himself is a conglomeration of myths and legends...with a number of realities mixed in too. Case in point: why do we call him jolly old St. Nicholas? Well, December 6 is Saint Nicholas Day. This is the day that the Catholic Church remembers a bishop in the area of Constantinople, during the early Roman Empire. One of the hallmarks of his history is that he was wealthy before joining the Church as a priest. And decided to give away all his goods, anonymously. As in he, on quiet nights when no one would notice, would leave gifts of gold and clothes and what have you, on the steps of those in need. So part of the celebration of this day is exchanging gifts.

Epiphany (the day the wisemen came) used to be a similar celebration.

So why not tell your kids about a Spirit of Christmas named Santa Claus who gives gifts freely, but later tell them that they too are the embodiment of this Spirit in a tradition of giving gifts out of love?

[Mishi]

I was brought up with none of the childhood myths, because they're lies and/or pagan gods and goddesses re-named in order to deceive people into becoming Satanists. ('Cause you know, Santa = Satan )

So my kids have Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny and whatever else they wish to believe in... I blame the Hogfather for all the random anthropomorphic personifications that we have running about the house.
I can see how much joy and fun our girls have using their imaginations, I didn't have that because I wasn't allowed to, so I really cherish it. When they ask if Santa and all the rest are real, then we'll explain the historical/mythological figures behind them and the various stories and traditions if they're interested.

I can see both sides of it too, I just prefer the one that makes my kids happy.

[anakhouri]

I probably made it clear in the other thread, but I do not think any of that is lying. I see it as encouraging children to use their imaginations. Khan will grow up believing whatever he wants: Santa, Easter Bunny, fairies, unicorns, mermaids. And when he decides to stop believing, that's his choice. In the case of Santa I will tell him something similar to what Kheldarson said.

I myself believe in everything. More specifically, I believe the world is a wondrous place with near-infinite corners and crannies. Who's to say there isn't a colony of fairies under a hill somewhere? If the world an produce something as mind-blowingly incredible as a rhinoceros (I am always amazed at the number of parents I see at the zoo with their kids, wandering around texting and not even looking at the animals), what else is out there that we haven't even discovered yet, or have forgotten?

Grown-ups get so caught up in paying bills and doing adult things (which of course we have to do to survive) that they forget to stop and look around them sometimes. Of course there's magic in the world; what's more magical than a caterpillar turning into a butterfly? Teaching kids to look and imagine and have faith will make them happier adults, I think.

[AdminAssistant]

Santa seems like an awesome, easy way to get rambunctious children to behave from November until December 25.

[Kelmon]

I probably made it clear in the other thread, but I do not think any of that is lying.

Yes, yes it is. Lying. Quite clearly.

Who's to say there isn't a colony of fairies under a hill somewhere?

Allow me to quote someone on that...

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

[Panacea]

Didn't want to hijack the other thread.

Am I the only one who thinks tricking kids into believing in Santa, Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny is decieving?

Interesting question. Bart Erhman, a religious scholar at UNC Chapel Hill, addresses the general issue in his latest book, which I'm currently reading, "Forged: Writing in the Name of God." He takes some time discussing the attitudes of ancient people on the subject of lying in written documents, and the moral implications of truth vs fiction.

There are those people who believe it is immoral to ever tell a lie. Aristotle was one such, apparently. However, fellow philosophers considered it ethical to tells lies for a good purpose, for example to get a child to take unpleasant medicine, or to comfort a dying person.

Then there's the story of Washington and the cherry tree. We know this popular children's story about George Washington, when confronted about hacking down his father's cherry tree, responding, "I cannot tell a lie."

Even though we've known for a couple of centuries this story is false, we still tell it. Why? Because it has something good to say about American values. It has something good to say about the virtue of telling the truth (and yes, I do see the irony in a false story being used to promote truthfulness).

The simple answer is, issues of truth and false hood are not simple questions. It's not black and white. To say to a woman, "yes, that dress makes you look fat," might be truthful but also very hurtful. "You know, that dress isn't your best color. You should try another one," is much more tactful and less hurtful.

One of my favorite authors, Robert Heinlein, wrote in the Notebooks of Lazarus Long

This sad little lizard told me that he was a brontosaurus on his
mother's side. I did not laugh; people who boast of ancestry often have
little else to sustain them. Humoring them costs nothing and adds to
happiness in a world in which happiness is always in short supply.

I look at this whole Santa/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy issue in that light. Telling fanciful stories to children costs nothing and adds to happiness in a world in which happiness is always in short supply. That the "truth" of these stories is lost along with the innocence of my youth is irrelevant; I recapture the joy through that of my nieces and nephews.

[Bloodsoul]

Sure, Santa's real! He's just not here. He's on Mars, now, 'cause he was kidnapped by aliens.

[Kheldarson]

Allow me to quote someone on that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

I'll see your Douglas Adams and raise you a Terry Pratchett. Appropriately from Hogfather:

HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

"Tooth fairies? Hogfather? Little--"

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING THE LITTLE LIES.

"So we can believe the big ones?"

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

[HYHYBT]

I have been told that the first time I saw Santa Claus was the local Christmas parade. I was scared of him, until my parents explained that this was a sort of game. I don't remember that... but I do know that, from the earliest I *can* remember clearly, I can best describe it as believing and not believing at the same time. I'd *ask* the usual sorts of questions, like how Santa would fit down the chimney, or how he'd get in at all now that we've moved and don't have a fireplace, but I also knew that the presents marked "Santa" came from my parents, same as the others, and it didn't bother me when I was old enough to hear he wasn't real from enough classmates to make it credible.

(In the same way, I sometimes wonder about things like how long Adam and Eve were in the garden before they ate the fruit, whether their never having been born would really necessarily mean they didn't have navels, what the carnivores on the Ark ate, etc. even though I do not believe those stories are true in the literal sense in the first place.)

[SkullKing]

I do not think necessarily that santa encourages greed since you have to DESERVE the present in order to get it(but the lump of coal aspect does seem to be diminishing more and more)

The garden may be beatifull without faries. But with fairies it is magical. It is an unique oportunity you have, to give children a unique joy.

I was against telling my sister about santa.}

On the other hand, I have a friend whose one of the few happy memories about her childhood involve the Easter bunny.

To me seeng trough santa, and the easter bunny. Is a kind of rite of passage. Where you stop believing but can still enjoy the simbolism.

Kind of like stopping believing in wrestling actually.

[Rapscallion]

I do not think necessarily that santa encourages greed since you have to DESERVE the present in order to get it(but the lump of coal aspect does seem to be diminishing more and more)

I think that second part is the most apt, here. Too many children seem to think it's an explosion of goodies no matter what they do, and I would imagine a fair amount of that is down to the parents involved.

Rapscallion

[DrFaroohk]

Meh. My kids believe in Santa and they smile when they see him and are happy on christmas morning. Is it lying? Sure is. I lie to them all the time anyway. Who doesn't lie to their kids? Are you really going to tell them that Grampa is dying a slow painful bloody diarrhea death because of the AIDS and cirrosis of the liver? No. Grampa is in heaven. Santa brings you presents. And there are lions in my man-cave which will eat any children who try to go in there.