The Evil Known as Telemarketers.

[BlaqueKatt]

No, he didn't. There are other jobs. Not my problem that he wasn't willing to keep looking. I've cleaned restrooms rather than work telemarketing, so don't give me that bullshit line.

good to know you know my husband's situation so well-when did you meet us?
Oh you didn't and your judging him(and me) based on nothing but your own bias.

At that time we both had been looking for OVER A YEAR-we were warehouse temps making $8 an hour with no benefits-could be laid off at any time, and we were told our jobs were done in two months and temp job=no unemployment-so I guess he should've dropped out of school and become homeless-while looking for a job.

See where I live the unemployment rate is very high(I've been looking for over 3 months and have gotten 1 interview-with applying for on average 10 jobs a week), and jobs that pay enough to support yourself while going full-time to school are very hard to come by-between rent and tuition he had to pay out over $1600 a month(very cheap apt, tuition was high after student loans due to his parents income, couldn't get more loans to cover)-I'm sure a restroom cleaning $5 an hour job(cleaning jobs here pay minimum wage and are part time only-less than 20 hours a week) would cover that no problem-with 80 hour weeks. The bullshit here isn't coming from me. But by all means feel free to judge without knowing any of the facts. Maybe I should try that and see how far it gets me.

All the more reason why people shouldn't expect me to be nice to those who telemarket to me. See how nice applying the standards uniformly can be?

the only standards we're "trying to force on you" asking is the standard of being a decent fucking human being and treat others how you would want to be treated. Unless you want to be treated horribly and verbally abused-then you have no right to complain when someone does it to you-I look forward to seeing your next post on CS about how some "evil customer" yelled and screamed at you for "no reason". It's called Karma-and it will bite you in the ass.


And since you like the word so much:
Disrespect
Dis`re*spect"\, n. Want of respect or reverence; disesteem; incivility; discourtesy. regard or treat with contempt or rudeness.

wow wasn't aware calling someone as part of someone's job was "treating with contempt or rudeness, or not being civil" as you claim. Wonder how you react when you get spam in you e-mail box-after all it's exatcly the same thing.

[Rapscallion]

All the more reason why people shouldn't expect me to be nice to those who telemarket to me. See how nice applying the standards uniformly can be?

I think Blaquekat answered this one for me. Not everyone has your standards.

I do believe I already pointed out that it took yelling at people to get it to stop.

I do believe I pointed out that anyone who didn't use the legal recourse to make the callers stop is just spoiling for a fight. Considering this would be a fight with people who aren't able to fight back (hey, they're trying to sell stuff and their calls will be monitored...) - sounds like bullying to me.

Them, in that case. They should assume you DO NOT want the calls unless you specify otherwise.

Ah, your standards once more. Problem is, your standards are not the law. Please look at reality. As I mentioned before, lobby and campaign for your standards to be made law.

While it's legal and money can be made out of it, it will happen.

DNC oft does not apply to business lines.

On that, I have to admit that I wasn't aware of this point. Simple - lobby for it to apply! Aint democracy grandy and dandy?

By the way, you said 'oft'. Does it count in your case? Do you have a business line?

Rapscallion

[The Shadow]

I do believe I pointed out that anyone who didn't use the legal recourse to make the callers stop is just spoiling for a fight.

You're assuming the "legal recourses" always bring results, which they don't. I know people in the U.S who are on the DNC list and still get called anyway. One person who knew I was Canadian asked me why so many more telemarketing calls come from centers located in Canada and I suspect the reason for this -- among possible others -- is to circumvent the DNC list.
It's a no-brainer that these companies will just move their business outside national borders where the law doesn't apply.

Another reason why people shouldn't look to their government to solve problems.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I'm just wondering, Zyanya or ElMarko, if you've ever been in a position where you had to take a job you hated and knew other people would hate you for, simply to feed yourself and keep a roof over your head?

I can't speak for them, but I can speak for me. I did that job for about half a day.

And then I decided "I can't do this anymore. It's wrong." So I thanked the boss for hiring me, apologized for wasting his time, and walked out. I went back to a rotting trailer on borrowed land, and more or less empty bank account, and a spare refriderator. I then set about finding another job that didn't bother me to perform. I waited tables. I temped. I did odd jobs. There's work out there. Maybe not great work, but there's work.

I really hadn't developed my hatred of the practice at that point. I found it incredibly annoying, but I didn't actually become a bona fide activist against it until I had done it myself. I think what happened to me was that while I myself was annoyed when telemarketers called me, it hadn't dawned on me how overwhelmingly intrusive it was to EVERYONE until I spent half a day doing it to other people, intruding upon their meals, their children's naps, their family emergencies, their third-shift sleeping cycles, their conversations.

So yeah. I've walked that mile.

[rahmota]

You know if more people where to take a better job that has higher moral value than telemarketing such as prostitution or assassin or heck even choose to go on welfare rather than be a telemarketer the bstrds would eventually dry up. Of course if the government would finally come to its senses and make it illegal to telemarket and throw some hefty jail and fines on those who do it then we could get rid of this scourge. And I''m not just talking about the companies I am talking about the phones. If you make a telemarketing call you should be personally fined and thrown in jail. Theres no need for telemarketing thats just tresspassing and invasion of privacy and the dishonor and onus is on the person doing the tresspassing. A person should have the right to be free from being hassled and annoyed in their home and should not have to go out of their way to keep the trash out of their house and that includes over the phone lines.

And no I do not think anyone who works as a telemarketer deserves respect. A prostitute, drug dealers, lawyers they all deserve more respect than a telemarketer. There are a lot more things a person can choose to do than telemarketing. I have managed to go 35 years without once descending to the level of despair and uncaring scum that is telemarketing. I have worked as everything from farming to technitian to odd jobs including dead animal remover. All much more spiritually clean and honorable than being a telemarketer. My usual response when I get a call (even though I am on the DNC and never fill out one of those info bait cards and have an unlisted unpublished number I still get a few of those calls at random times) ranges from just plain hanging up to wasting their time by being silly or teasing them with the hope thye might make a sale. I once managed to get this one to stay on the phone for an hour and a half before I finally got tired of teasing them with the hope that they might make a sale. (my best effort ever, I am so proud.)

Although if the one who calls me cant speak english they get told not to call back until they have learned english. (Which should be the only legal language for all business in america. Why the hell should I have to learn a foreign langauge to accomidate the illegals in this country. We dont need no press 1 for english!)

Suffice to say the DNC list is a joke. Most if not all telemarketing comapnies are scummy scam artists who will ignore it and a person would be more honorable and decent to panhandle on the street, take welfare handouts or be a whore than be a telemarketer. The only thing less spiritually clean is a children services worker.

[Boozy]

You know if more people where to take a better job that has higher moral value than telemarketing such as prostitution or assassin or heck even choose to go on welfare rather than be a telemarketer the bstrds would eventually dry up.

It is deeply offensive to suggest that telemarketing is worse than murder. There are many people here who have worked as telemarketers. Some stuck it out for a while, some quit their first day.

But I'm willing to bet that no one here has murdered someone in cold blood.

To be frank, I didn't read the rest of your post. As soon as someone makes such an over-the-top comparison, I think it's pretty safe to discount everything else they have to say.

[Zyanya]

the only standards we're "trying to force on you" asking is the standard of being a decent fucking human being and treat others how you would want to be treated.

There is that double standard of yours again.

See, decent fucking human beings don't call people at home to try to bully them into purchasing things.

There's work out there. Maybe not great work, but there's work.

Yep. And there always is, if you are willing to actually work. Company I used to work for paid 10 bucks an hour + benies for day laborers (which included ditch diggers) in an area rife with unemployment with people constantly bitching about there not being any jobs available, and you know what?

The only people applying for the job were the folks fresh over the border.

I do believe I pointed out that anyone who didn't use the legal recourse to make the callers stop is just spoiling for a fight.

The legal recourse = inform them I am on the DNC and ask them not to call me again.

The result - three or four more calls while they were 'updating their records'.

m'kay. And, as pointed out, the DNC only applies to calling centers based in the US and doesn't apply to 'non-profit' organizations or anyone who can claim some BS tenuous link to a company you do business with or who swears you neglected to tic a little box when filling out paperwork somewhere.

By the way, you said 'oft'. Does it count in your case? Do you have a business line?

Yes, I do. And I'd be happy to lobby to get it to stop. Just as soon as I have deeper pockets than the telemarketers. WEEEEEE, it's amazing how many people are still under the delusion the US is a democracy. It isn't, and never has been.

Please look at reality. As I mentioned before, lobby and campaign for your standards to be made law.

Now who needs a reality check?

Sure. I'll lobby and campaign. I think I've got a whole free dollar next month to lobby with. And funny, sure looks like I am spreading my message.

Now, reality check for you. Telemarketers are rude. If they call back after being asked nicely not to, they deserve what they get.

wow wasn't aware calling someone as part of someone's job was "treating with contempt or rudeness, or not being civil" as you claim. Wonder how you react when you get spam in you e-mail box-after all it's exatcly the same thing.

No, it isn't. Spam doesn't interrupt my day, and no one on message boards whines about how I disrespect spammers when I delete their messages unread the way they do when I slam the phone down on telemarketers.

See, this is your delusion. You think I am rude to telemarketers for NO REASON. The fact that I've cited my reasons repeatedly seems to have made no difference to you. No wonder you work in telemarketing, just like them, you seem completely unable to hear what I am saying and are determined to continue your spew.

Let me repeat it again -

The first time a telemarketer from a particular company calls, I state 'not interested, and I am on the DNC, please remove me from your calling list'. They usually respond 'thank you, have a nice day', and we both go along with our lives.

Nice, polite, respectful conversation.

The problem is, there are some that when I say 'not interested, and I am on the DNC, please remove me from your calling list' start responding with 'oh, that doesn't apply to us' and continue with their spew. At which point, I get less nice, and ask to speak to a supervisor. About half hang up on me at that point. The others go ahead and let me speak to a supervisor, and I state 'I do not want your company calling me again, remove me from your calling list'.

Some supervisors do so immediately. A few others say, 'it may take time to update our records, you may receive more calls'. That's when I get angry and break out the yelling.

Sometimes, after I have gone through the above, they call back. That is also when I get angry and break out the yelling.


So, again, how many times should I let them disrespect me and ignore my wish to be uninterrupted in my home before I'm allowed to get angry?

Especially considering most telemarketing companies are indeed selling overpriced bullshit and scams.

Dis`re*spect"\, n. Want of respect or reverence; disesteem; incivility; discourtesy. regard or treat with contempt or rudeness.

They certainly do not show me courtesy when they interrupt my day. They do treat me with contempt when they call back after being asked not to. Do you not understand the words courtesy or contempt? Because frankly, telemarketing is a beautiful example of disrespect.

[DesignFox]

Zyanya, maybe I misunderstood you, but before these last few posts, I didn't see anywhere where you stated that you first politely informed the person that you are not interested.

I say, if you've asked to be removed, and they ignore your request, then by all means, take the gloves off and go out swinging. When politeness doesn't work, well...then that's that! Do what you gotta do.

It's one thing to immediately curse at someone for calling you. It is quite another to deliver a nice polite "stop calling" and then continue receiving calls anyway.

I think most of us agree that that is RUDE, INTRUSIVE, and deserves some action...any action...to make the calls stop.

Although, I still agree that if it annoys us all that much, we need to lobby for a change in legislature...or we need to take actions against bad companies that ignore the law.

But yea, I can definitely agree- if you are polite, but your desires are ignored, then all bets are off.

I just don't agree with immediately jumping down a person's throat or immediately resorting to cursing and screaming. It IS about respect- but if you show respect, and the other person doesn't...then you do what you have to do, and that's fine by me.

Rahmota, no offense...but I gotta agree with Boozy...I wouldn't equate a telemarketer with a murderer.... that logic scares me a little.

[BlaqueKatt]

There is that double standard of yours again.

and there's that total lack of reading comprehension of yours again..

No wonder you work in telemarketing, just like them, you seem completely unable to hear what I am saying and are determined to continue your spew.

There you go assuming again-this time after you have been given the information-


I'm unemployed-been looking for the past three months as stated in previous post that you didn't bother to read. The company we worked for had several different contracts:
Tech support for garage door openers
Insurance enrollment
business building maitenance dispatch
Credit card companies
Customer sevice for cell phone providers*
OnStar
account setup for businniess managed internet service*
billing inquiry/dispute for business managed internet service*
Bank home equity loans
credit card applications/payments
provider locator for an insurance company
claims department for a life insurance company

the starred on the list are the jobs I worked-nothing for telemarketing-my husband took applications for home equity loans after calling current customers of the bank. the one credit card company did business telemarketing, offering credit cards to small businesses.

From what I heard if you hung up on either one the auto-dialer automatically put your number back into the shuffle to be called again-the rep had no way to remove the number unless they got your information to enter into the system, to remove it. There are also certain states where it is illegal for a telemarketer to rebut an objection or the statement "I'm not interested"-because the people lobbied their representatives to make it illegal. Sounds like you live in one where it is legal-start an e-mail campaign to make it illegal.

And I wasn't aware that sending an e-mail to a senator, or congressperson cost money-that's how I lobby for changes, I have gotten several personal responses and phone calls from my representatives because I wrote a professional e-mail. My mother was actually part of a conference call in regards to a proposed bill about prescription drug prices held by Tammy Baldwin. My mother is on disability-it cost her 42 cents for a stamp(she didn't have a computer t the time) to lobby Ms. Baldwin.

Congressional e-mail addresses

These Congresstypes like to know that they are hearing from their constituents (and often will only be responsive if you demonstrate that you are one of their constituents), so be sure to include your snail mail address in your correspondence.

and this link will give you both your senator and state representatives contact information.

and this wonderful little site will let you browse the voting records of your elected officials-democracy only works if the people work with it-review voting records, where they stand on the issues that matter to you and respond accordingly(either by questioning their vote*, or by voting yourself on election day)

*the representatives in my area are happy to discuss their reasons for voting a certain way, they're thrilled that someone gets off their butt to get involved.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I totally agree that putting telemarketing in the same moral classification as murder is a bit over the top, but I also agree that it's illustrates a point.

Just because someone is willing to pay you to do something does not make it an okay thing to do.

[Rapscallion]

The legal recourse = inform them I am on the DNC and ask them not to call me again.

The result - three or four more calls while they were 'updating their records'.

Okay, three or four more calls? Well, fuck - put the tar and feathers away, boys. Sounds to me like we have a capital crime here! What does everyone reckon? Electrocution? Hanging? Lethal injection? Flogging to death? Defenestration?

[/sarcasm]

Over here, when you sign on the TPS, you are warned that it will take up to three months to see a significant difference in call volume, but after six months you should get none. If someone calls over here and finds I'm on the TPS, they shit themselves and can't get the phone down quickly enough. It's voluntary on the part of the companies involved, but they do face some harsh fines.

So, after those three or four calls, did the companies call again? If not, I guess it does work with the companies operating within the law.

Once more, you have to work on your politicians. I'd avoid the heavy rhetoric of them belonging to the same circle of hell as child molesters - that sort of thing really doesn't work as an argument.

m'kay. And, as pointed out, the DNC only applies to calling centers based in the US and doesn't apply to 'non-profit' organizations or anyone who can claim some BS tenuous link to a company you do business with or who swears you neglected to tic a little box when filling out paperwork somewhere.

Well, I guess you need to work on your politicians. Get a system like ours - not checking a tickbox over here isn't grounds for calling, and it's only people who have actually had trading dealings with you who are allowed to continue calling. Most of them over here who do call you will stop if you tell them, since they know that there is a huge amount of bad press available. Non-profit? Our TPS applies to them as well, last I heard.

Yes, I do. And I'd be happy to lobby to get it to stop. Just as soon as I have deeper pockets than the telemarketers. WEEEEEE, it's amazing how many people are still under the delusion the US is a democracy. It isn't, and never has been.

I never claimed it was, but I hear of many people over there claiming it is. Of course, to a lot of people 'democracy' means 'agrees with me'.

"I can't alter anything by myself," is one of the biggest cop-outs going. Get an online petition going - they're free last I looked. Hey, as far as I'm concerned, you have my permission to use a link to that in your signature on CS.com and here (we usually don't condone politics, and this would be politics in its purest form, but I'll make a dispensation for you). I just checked the stats from the last eighteen months, and we get an average of 11,000 visitors a day, which can't be bad.

Got some paper and some spare time? Print up a petition and go around your local neighbourhood - an afternoon would surely glean you plenty of signatures. You may need to look into your local legislation about this, but I suspect that if as many people as you believe think as you do, you'll have local stores willing to put up a petition clipboard in their place. Ask permission to stand in a local shop's entry way and have a sign saying that you're campaigning on the DNC and asking for it to be enforced more stringently etc. Add in that you want the business lines to be covered by the DNC as well and I'm sure local business owners would be willing to help out.

Grassroots power - ask your local politicians and your state representatives where they stand. Let the people know that on the petition itself.

Now who needs a reality check?

I think you do. You could either be an activist or piss and moan on an Internet forum whose last thirty days worth of stats show new posts per day of between sixteen and one hundred and two.

If you can get local papers to cover your campaign, and maybe even local radio stations, you can get a lot of free publicity. Get noticed, and the one thing politicians really hate is the tenacious activist who won't stop hounding them.

Sure. I'll lobby and campaign. I think I've got a whole free dollar next month to lobby with. And funny, sure looks like I am spreading my message.

Nope - you're spreading hatred. Go to the legal source of power - affect that instead. We've got a system over here that works and I know this for a fact.

A spare dollar? How can you afford a business line in that case? You can campaign on a shoestring, though - getting contacts with local journalists with a public-interest story is one step. Get like-minded people to join in.

Now, reality check for you. Telemarketers are rude. If they call back after being asked nicely not to, they deserve what they get.

Reality check - outbound phone centres work on an auto-dialler, as far as I am aware. If you talk to one telesales person and tell them not to call again, and the company calls again, it's very unlikely that the person you scream abuse at is going to be the same one who called first time. Even if it's not an auto-dialler, they'll be given a number by a computer to call next.

When you heap abuse on a person, do you stop to check that it's the same person who called before?

Some supervisors do so immediately. A few others say, 'it may take time to update our records, you may receive more calls'. That's when I get angry and break out the yelling.

So, the supervisors are to blame for the faults of the computer systems they use? That's like blaming a cashier for things beyond their control, and that happens all the time. There's a website for that somewhere...

So, again, how many times should I let them disrespect me and ignore my wish to be uninterrupted in my home before I'm allowed to get angry?

How long until your overreaction contributes to your first heart attack?

They certainly do not show me courtesy when they interrupt my day. They do treat me with contempt when they call back after being asked not to. Do you not understand the words courtesy or contempt? Because frankly, telemarketing is a beautiful example of disrespect.

Funny - you don't seem to understand the words.

Let me put it bluntly - you're abusing people who do not have any control over the situation. Sure, they don't have to work there, but the equivalent is saying that a cashier at a store is a verbal punching bag due to the cost of goods, and if they don't like the abuse they can find work elsewhere. Those are the actions of a bully.

You keep harping on the word 'respect'. Respect is earned - you haven't earned mine.

Rapscallion

[ebonyknight]

I've been thinking about this, and I figure that if getting nasty actually makes the phone calls stop, whereas politely saying "I'm not interested" makes them continue, then that's a pretty valid argument for getting nasty. Yelling for a minute is a lot less leg work than going through the song-and-dance routine of reporting them, so I can see why people would prefer it if that got them results.

And now you have the age old CS conundrum.

If bad behavior, yields results, who's wrong? The person exhibiting the bad behavior or the person who yields to it, re-enforcing the bad behavior?

[AFPheonix]

If yelling gets your point across, yell at the people who can actually do something about the problem, like management or the owners.
Yelling at the person who gets a computer-generated phone list to drone a preset sales line is as effective as me being able to stop doctor's offices from dialing the wrong fax number and sending new prescriptions to some poor lady's private residence instead of to our pharmacy.

[BlaqueKatt]

"I can't alter anything by myself," is one of the biggest cop-outs going. Get an online petition going - they're free last I looked. Hey, as far as I'm concerned, you have my permission to use a link to that in your signature on CS.com and here (we usually don't condone politics, and this would be politics in its purest form, but I'll make a dispensation for you). I just checked the stats from the last eighteen months, and we get an average of 11,000 visitors a day, which can't be bad.<snip>
Grassroots power - ask your local politicians and your state representatives where they stand. Let the people know that on the petition itself.

And I already linked to the email addresses for senate and congress above.

And I know several people that have gotten laws changed without deep pockets

[rahmota]

Rahmota, no offense...but I gotta agree with Boozy...I wouldn't equate a telemarketer with a murderer.... that logic scares me a little.

Eh oh well. I was just listing jobs I find less morally reprehensible than telemarketers. I mean assassins just have a job to do too. I could respect an assassin or a prostitute more than a telemarketer. The assassin or prostitute at least provide a useful service to humanity.

Oh well at least telemarketers rank above children services workers. Those scum dont even rate as people.