The Evil Known as Telemarketers.

[Zyanya]

Useless? Invalid? Get a petition with a few thousand signatures to a politician that states that they will not be receiving votes from those people unless the politician does what they say on a certain issue, and you'll see results.

:::sigh:::

I loathe the continual spread of misinformation.

An Internet petition generally has little validity and little effect because it is so easy to forge. No way to check the 'signatures'. Thus, politicians don't even bother to look at them.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/p/petitions.htm

Please educate yourself.

You seem to be under the delusion that I'm psychic and know what you've done.

You brought up the subject hun.

Most companies - which exact ones use software that allows them to do that? I certainly don't know, and I suspect you don't. How many tales on CS have had the SC tell the cashier that their system should be able to do something or other when the system blatantly can't? Rather a number.

Funny, everytime I do get angry and demand my number be removed, it happens. Odd that.

From your language in here, you give the impression that you do shout on the first call. Just a hint - putting things in larger font and red letters (the equivalent of shouting on the Internet) doesn't make it any more valid.

And you'll notice it didn't happen in the first post. I happened about the tenth time you refused to notice it's inclusion in the post and kept pretending I'd said the exact opposite. Kind of like an SC does.

First of all, if I have a stroke then it will be from unhealthy eating habits, not from stress. I don't get out of shape over a number of phone calls. Secondly, it's your reality, not mine. My reality is quite peachy, actually. Sucks to be you, by the sounds of it. Ever thought of moving to a country where the politicians are worried by the people and the people don't need to be armed to get that result? I have a spare room.

Sorry, I prefer a country where I have freedom of speech and religion and am allowed to defend myself.

Supervisors can do jack shit in most cases. They can remove you in some, but they are constrained by company policy that they do not set. The owners of the business have a layer of managers between them and the supervisors, so whatever policies they set (such as don't take people off the database or you're fired) don't affect them. Supervisors generally have as much control over the situation as the front line workers, perhaps a fraction more. They're just as easily replaced.

And yet, demanding they remove my number seems to get the job done. Funny that.

It's just amazing how all of your 'solutions' don't work, and the solution I use, which you swear doesn't work, is the only one that does.

What I have noticed, though, is that you seem to think that the other debators in this thread are psychic and that yelling and screaming at frontline employees is going to effect change. You also want validation of your actions from everyone around you. You'll not have mine.

What I have noticed is your inability to actually read the words written, instead you just seem to do a lot of making up what you think I've said.

Hypocrite.

[Depot Denizen]

I think what Raps was saying that actual, written petitions have an impact - not those silly "save the blue whale" Internet petitions that the bleeding hearts love to send around. In today's electronic society, the written word has a lot of power behind it.

[Rapscallion]

:::sigh:::

I loathe the continual spread of misinformation.

So why do it? Every time I've pointed out that you can do something, you've ignored it. You can do something. From what I can see you choose not to, preferring instead to complain on the Internet.

An Internet petition generally has little validity and little effect because it is so easy to forge. No way to check the 'signatures'. Thus, politicians don't even bother to look at them.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/p/petitions.htm

Please educate yourself.

Please do something for a change instead of complaining uselessly.

You brought up the subject hun.

Indeed I did. I suggested you arranged a petition, you seemed to think I should know you had already signed such, and now you're being patronising.

Funny, everytime I do get angry and demand my number be removed, it happens. Odd that.

Not the impression I got from your posts.

And you'll notice it didn't happen in the first post. I happened about the tenth time you refused to notice it's inclusion in the post and kept pretending I'd said the exact opposite. Kind of like an SC does.

You still did it, ignoring the aspects I brought up, and it's your blood pressure.

Sorry, I prefer a country where I have freedom of speech and religion and am allowed to defend myself.

Oddly enough, I've got one. I'm not allowed to kill someone save in extreme circumstances, but I've got all the above. Obviously, if I took up with a cult that sacrificed people, I'd be stopped, but that pretty much applies in the US anyway. Hate speech is outlawed, but I don't regard that as repressive. The parameters are pretty broad.

And yet, demanding they remove my number seems to get the job done. Funny that.

It's just amazing how all of your 'solutions' don't work, and the solution I use, which you swear doesn't work, is the only one that does.

Hey, if being a bully works for you, fine. The offer of the spare room is withdrawn.

What I have noticed is your inability to actually read the words written, instead you just seem to do a lot of making up what you think I've said.

Hypocrite.

Words written?

If your laws are inadequate, that's your problem. I'm sitting pretty.

Signed them, fine, but organised and cajoled people? You just want to sit around and piss and moan.

Money counts for nothing if you don't get the votes. Hilary Clinton's campaign is roughly ten million dollars in debt, last I heard.

Okay, three or four more calls? Well, fuck - put the tar and feathers away, boys. Sounds to me like we have a capital crime here! What does everyone reckon? Electrocution? Hanging? Lethal injection? Flogging to death? Defenestration?

"I can't alter anything by myself," is one of the biggest cop-outs going.

A spare dollar? How can you afford a business line in that case?

Don't mind - I'm just bringing up points I made that you didn't bother addressing.

If I'm a hypocrite, then I'm in good company, and I can assure you that I would therefore be a hypocrite with a phone that only gives me relevant calls.

Rapscallion

[Dreamstalker]

I agree with both interpretations. An actual paper petition that will get sent somewhere tends to be regarded higher than electrons/pixels in the etherweb. It takes a few seconds to "sign" an online petition (most of which are woefully poor in any description of what they're for), but a paper document has to be read and pen set to paper which is permanent.

In most cases, signature on paper proves that someone has read and agrees with what is said. Typing a name in a box may or may not do that, someone may be signing the online petition because they were told "do this or you're not cool".

Mind, there are a few that work, but I've also seen a lot from petitionline that are utter crap.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Guys. Please.

Nobody hates telemarketing more than I do. Note I said "telemarketing" not "telemarketers."

I dont' hate telemarketers. I hate what they do, and some of them are right assholes. But you know what? They aren't the problem. The real problem is people who actually respond positively to telemarketing. And by that I mean purchase things that are sold this way.

Telemarketing would cease to exist if people would just stop responding in a profitable way to it. So don't blame the yob on the phone. Blame your idiot neighbor who just bought aluminum siding from the yob on the phone 10 minutes earlier.

Don't want to be bothered? If you are in the States, do this (I can't help you if you aren't, I only know about US telemarketing law):

1. Go to https://www.donotcall.gov/
Sign all relevant numbers up. I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure you don't really have to worry about your cell, at least from legit companies. Regardless of what the email petition of the week says.

2. Invest in Caller ID. Do not take calls marked as "0", "No Data" or "Info unavailable or blocked." Do not take unsolicited calls from identified businesses.

3. Leave an outgoing message stating that telemarketers are not permitted to leave a sales message.

4. For God's sake, stop giving out your phone numbers. Don't give it out to cashiers, and don't give it on things like store "loyalty" cards. Do not sign up for store credit cards, etc.

I guarantee if you do these things you will receive very, very few sales calls, if any. I have spoken to a single person I didn't want to talk to in years. I only spoke to her because I saw that it was a local number and identified. I also saw that she had called many times. It was the local alumni association looking for a handout. I told her who I was and why she was not to call me again. I made her jump through my standard anti telemarketing hoops. (I am notorious in town for having successfully sued and otherwise legally harrassed local business for violating the telemarketing laws. I cited her some real references as to just how psycho I am, just in case she didn't believe me. )I havent' heard a peep since.

However, I only spoke to her because I chose to. I could have kept on ignoring her calls. However, there is potential money in my speaking to a local caller, so I thought I'd suss it out. My point is this: You can yell all you want. You can complain all you want. But that's not how you make it stop. Unless you really just want to vent at someone on the phone, do these things I tell you. Do they deserve respect? I'm not getting into that. I'm just saying I deserve some peace. And I don't want to be bothered, so I took effective action. I'm not bothered anymore.

Is it fair that you are the one that has to take action and effort just to be left alone in your home? No, it isnt'. It sucks. Life is not fair. In fact, it's brutal. Figure out what you want, and then work toward achieving that goal, fair or not. Fair doens't matter. Hell, it doesn't even exist.

[DesignFox]

Guys. Please.

Nobody hates telemarketing more than I do. Note I said "telemarketing" not "telemarketers."

I dont' hate telemarketers. I hate what they do, and some of them are right assholes. But you know what? They aren't the problem. The real problem is people who actually respond positively to telemarketing. And by that I mean purchase things that are sold this way.

Telemarketing would cease to exist if people would just stop responding in a profitable way to it. So don't blame the yob on the phone. Blame your idiot neighbor who just bought aluminum siding from the yob on the phone 10 minutes earlier.

Thank you, I'm pretty sure I stated this a few pages back, as well.

If it wasn't profitable, it wouldn't happen. Stop making it profitable and the calls will cease.

Or, do the things Kinkoid listed. I have call ID, and all of my numbers are on the DNC list. I don't get bothered at home.

[Peppergirl]

Can we stop with the name-calling?

Jesus Christ, there are ways of having a heated debate without resortiing to personal attacks and calling names.

How does this make us any better than the SC's we bitch about over in CS?

[rahmota]

1. Go to https://www.donotcall.gov/
Sign all relevant numbers up. I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure you don't really have to worry about your cell, at least from legit companies. Regardless of what the email petition of the week says.

That only applies to businesses who obey the law, are subject to US law, are not charity organizations, are not otherwise associated with companies you do business with.

2. Invest in Caller ID. Do not take calls marked as "0", "No Data" or "Info unavailable or blocked." Do not take unsolicited calls from identified businesses.

Its my phone, my home, I should not have to jump through hoops to not be bothered iun my sanctuary agains tthe outside world. Also not everyone has available caller id. Also I have two friends who have blocked numbers on their personal phone lines (they spend booku bucks a month to do this) how am I supposed to know when its them callign or some scummy TM?

3. Leave an outgoing message stating that telemarketers are not permitted to leave a sales message

Been there done that. Had them ignore it. Even had one reference it saying that didnt apply to them.

4. For God's sake, stop giving out your phone numbers. Don't give it out to cashiers, and don't give it on things like store "loyalty" cards. Do not sign up for store credit cards, etc.

Been there done that too. Anytime they want a number I either give them Jenny's or 555-1212 or the number to ghostbusters or soemthing.

But I still get the random call. Not as many since I started several years ago to get crazy with them. Waste their time. Or go postal against them. Being nice and polite gets you walked on by these scum. This is my home. I should have the right to not have to lift a finger to do anything to keep those people out that I want out and the right to do whatever I want to anyone who breeches the security of my walls. You are the invader when you come onto my home uninvited or unnannounced. I have every right to treat you like it.

Now when I call a company I am initiating the contact and the business and am very polite and cordial, usually unless they get uppity with me. Which is a very rare thing. And those companies I usually report to the state AG and BBB.

My attitude is this a company is there for people to come to. Not the other way around. if a company is respectful, deserving of respect, or worthy then it will not come and harrass you like some street corner panhandler.

[Zyanya]

I think what Raps was saying that actual, written petitions have an impact - not those silly "save the blue whale" Internet petitions that the bleeding hearts love to send around. In today's electronic society, the written word has a lot of power behind it.

And what was pointed out as a fact is that internet petitions are not considered valid and aren't given the time of day by politicians. So why should I waste my time?

Not the impression I got from your posts.

Then perhaps you should try actually reading my posts, because I've pointed that out multiple times.

1. Go to https://www.donotcall.gov/
Sign all relevant numbers up. I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure you don't really have to worry about your cell, at least from legit companies. Regardless of what the email petition of the week says.

This point has already been addressed.

Invest in Caller ID. Do not take calls marked as "0", "No Data" or "Info unavailable or blocked." Do not take unsolicited calls from identified businesses.

This point has also already been addressed.

Leave an outgoing message stating that telemarketers are not permitted to leave a sales message

Completely useless.

For God's sake, stop giving out your phone numbers. Don't give it out to cashiers, and don't give it on things like store "loyalty" cards. Do not sign up for store credit cards, etc.

Sorry, but I think it's rather important for folks like my bank to be able to call me, and I can't always prevent folks from selling my number. Not to mention, I still have to deal with all the folks who had the number before me and gave it out. And all the folks that offer 'additional services' with the bank. Good luck finding a bank that doesn't have those.

Not as many since I started several years ago to get crazy with them.

Same here. Amazing, but once I started going to the supervisor and being rude and demanding, it's incredible how many calling lists I got removed from. And since I got removed, the calls don't start back up again after they sell the list to someone else.

I honestly wish that wasn't the solution, but fuckitall, they are the ones who pushed and pushed and pushed, so I really don't give a shit who thinks I'm rude when I snap at the folks who call back after I ask them not to.

I suppose they also think I should have been polite to the guy who ignored my no-soliciting and no-prothelysizing signs and kept ringing my doorbell for ten minutes at a time. Fuck that. He came back after I'd asked politely for him not to, so he got cussed out and informed that if I saw him coming up my walk again I was turning the sprinklers on. He didn't come back again.

They kept pushing. They keep pushing, knowing full well it isn't welcome. But they keep on, and keep on, and keep on. Frankly, they have no right to complain in the slightest about the backlash.

And I don't want to be bothered, so I took effective action. I'm not bothered anymore.

Same here. I take an effective action, and they quit calling. See, they, and I, are familiar with the loopholes in the DNC and thus aware that most of the these guys cannot be sued, such as the alumni association you mentioned. So, fyi, there are those of us familiar with how the law actually works and you might want to keep that in mind when making your grandiose claims.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...ts/alt107.shtm

Can I register my business phone number or a fax number?

The National Do Not Call Registry is only for personal phone numbers. Business-to-business calls and faxes are not covered by the National Do Not Call Registry.

(So those of us who work from home are just plain fucked)

If I register my number on the National Do Not Call Registry, will it stop all telemarketing calls?

No. Placing your number on the National Do Not Call Registry will stop most telemarketing calls, but not all. Because of limitations in the jurisdiction of the FTC and FCC, calls from or on behalf of political organizations, charities, and telephone surveyors would still be permitted, as would calls from companies with which you have an existing business relationship, or those to whom you’ve provided express agreement in writing to receive their calls.

(aka, if they can come up with a tenuous link to you, or you fail to check a box when filling out a necessary form, you be screwed. Unless of course, you yell at a supervisor)

Are calls from political organizations or calls soliciting for charities covered?

Political solicitations are not covered by the TSR at all, since they are not included in its definition of “telemarketing.” Charities are not covered by the requirements of the national registry. However, if a third-party telemarketer is calling on behalf of a charity, a consumer may ask not to receive any more calls from, or on behalf of, that specific charity. If a third-party telemarketer calls again on behalf of that charity, the telemarketer may be subject to a fine of up to $11,000.

(So no, the caller from the alumni association was not the slightest bit intimidated by your claims, she just realized she wasn't going to get anywhere with you and removed your number)

My number is on the National Do Not Call Registry. After I bought something from a company, a telemarketer representing that organization called me. Is this a violation?

No. By purchasing something from the company, you established a business relationship with the company. As a result, even if you put your number on the National Do Not Call Registry, that company may call you for up to 18 months after your last purchase or delivery from it, or your last payment to it, unless you ask the company not to call again. In that case, the company must honor your request not to call. If they subsequently call you again, they may be subject to a fine of up to $11,000.

An established business relationship with a company also will be created if you make an inquiry to the company, or submit an application to it. This kind of established business relationship exists for three months after the inquiry or application. During this time, the company can call you.

(If you buy anything online, or register an item so you can receive warranty service, you've just sold your soul to the telemarketers)

What if I get a telemarketing call, but can’t get the telemarketer’s name or phone number?

For law enforcement officials to take action on your complaint, they need either the telemarketer’s name or phone number, as well as the date of the call. If you want to report a do not call violation, please get that information.

(Which the fucktard variety telemarketers know, that's why they don't give out this information or give out false information)

So, now that the babblers are familiar with how the DNC actually works, maybe they can stop parroting the same old tired 'solutions' over and over and over again?

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Oh, sorry. Yeah, of course, you are right.

Probably I just imagined being interviewed in the newspaper some years back for being the local go-to gal for anti telemarketing info, successfully suing companies that violate the TCPA, and generally running circles around and eventually spanking a lawyer in a courtroom that had been sent out to defend his company against me when I brought a suit against them.

I probably didn't finance a vardo with the money I got from winning anti-telemarketing lawsuits, either. Vardos are cheap, I probably paid for it with money I found in my sofa.

You're right, I don't know dick about telemarketing law. My phone rings off the hook night and day, and my blood pressure is through the roof.

Carry on whining and complaining about how unfair life is and how much it all sucks that you can't do anything about your lot. Didn't mean to interupt.

[MadMike]

Here's my take on the issue.

First of all, while I don't condone being rude to telemarketers right off the bat, I don't see it as being a "sucky customer" if someone does. As someone else pointed out, if I'm in my own home and not choosing to interact with any sort of sales person, I'm not a customer. I'm just someone who wants to do what he wants in his own home, and not have a series of sales pitches forced on him. If I had actually set foot in some sort of place of business, that would be different.

Now, while I don't condone being rude, I have done it. As someone pointed out, sometimes that's the only way to get them to leave you alone. If you try to politely decline, they'll try to talk you into changing your mind, and that is one sure way to piss me off. I didn't mind when it was just one in a great while, and most of them would respect your decision to decline, but over time, telemarketers became more plentiful and more pushy. And this "one size fits all" set of hours that they are allowed to call is bullshit. Some people work weird shifts, others, like me, may like to sleep in on the weekends.

I never actually got rude with one until one of them woke up my son, who I had just put down for a nap. I didn't get mad about the call itself, because first of all, it could have been anyone, and second, they had no way of knowing I had just put him down. But when I tried to politely explain that I couldn't talk now, my son was asleep and I didn't want him to wake up, the response was something along the line of, "Oh, this won't take long. I'll make it quick." I was too polite to hang up, and we went back and forth like that a few times, and then he did wake up. I let her have it with both barrels and slammed the phone down.

I think the next time was this one company that I had a credit card with. They were always trying to get me to buy some sort of insurance plan, and they were always pushy about it. They would never ask me if I was interested, they told me they were going to send out a packet for me to fill out to apply for it, until I told them no, they weren't. But that's not when I went off. When they called me three times in the same week, that's when I went off. They stopped calling after that, but I was so fed up I ended up cancelling the card.

The only other time I went off was not one of my prouder moments. They made the mistake of calling me early on a Saturday morning. Again, I'm not condoning what I did, but I can be a real bastard if someone disturbs my sleep. I tell people that if they do that to me, the house had better be on fire, and even then, proceed with extreme caution. The phone rang, woke me up out of a dead sleep, and I saw that it was this cemetary company that had been calling me repeatedly over the past couple weeks. I won't get into what I said, but they never called me again after that.

Here's how my way of dealing with them changed over time:

At first, I'd answer the phone, and if it was a telemarketer, I'd politely tell them I wasn't interested. Unfortunately, more often than not, this would almost always result in us going back and forth with the telemarketer wanting to know why, trying to change my mind, etc.

After that, I got to the point where I'd be polite to them at first, but if they kept going after I told them I wasn't interested, I'd hang up on them. One such case went like these:

"You've been approved for such-and-such credit card..."

"I don't need another credit card. I'm not interested. Sorry."

"Well, I can understand that. But we can offer you...."

CLICK!

Then I got to the point where I'd hang up as soon as I found out it was a telemarketer. Then I started screening anything that showed up on Caller ID as a business or not at all. Then apparently some of these people started telemarketing from home, because I got one that showed a person's name, not a business, that turned out to be a telemarketer. So now, if even if I don't recognize the name, the machine gets it first.

That, and the DNC list has cut it to almost zero, but occasionally I do get something from a non-profit, or some business claiming to be one.

Once again, I don't condone being rude to them, but they have worn my patience quite thin several times. And it's the fault of the telemarketing industry, and probably the advertising industry as a whole. They seem to think they have some sort of God-given right to force their ads on everyone they come in contact with, regardless of the recipients' wishes.

They simply don't know when to quit. No one complained until the calls started coming several times a day, and the salespeople started becoming pushy. No one complained about junk faxes until their machines started running out of paper and/or toner overnight. No one complained about spam until it started to outnumber legitimate emails.

[kibbles]

A person who thinks it's ok to be rude right off the bat to a telemarketer may not necessarily be sucky customer, just a sucky person IMO. The examples MadMike gave, IMO, the telemarketers had it coming. As soon as anyone says this isn't a good time, they are supposed to schedule a better time and end the call right away.

But, a word of advice. It is better to say never call again, then not interested because most companies require their CSRs to give at least one rebuttal to a not interested.

[Slytovhand]

The problem is, some people in this thread don't get that part. They are assuming that as soon as a telemarketer calls, we break out the foul language and drive to the telemarketer's house to kill his puppies.

And it doesn't seem to matter how often we've said 'no, that isn't what we are talking about'.

Numbers game, Zyan... if you look back through all of your posts here (and similarly on other threads on other topics that you are being debated against), you'll notice that the amount (and intensity) devoted to the 'not' side of things is vastly greater than the 'for' side - that's all.

Yep - you did say fairly early on that they have to cross a line first, and you've mentioned it a couple of times since...but the 'passion' (shall we say) for the those who cross the line comes off a lot more..(especially when you start going off on tangents - such as saying to Raps about living in a country with 'freedom of speech and religion, and allowed to defend yourself'... yeah - that doesn't really help your argument (especially when you consider that those 'rights' were fought for, and debated and argued in courts and all - so if you have them, it's because of that - not because someone yelled at the person in their face.... just saying...).

Now.. as for

"where simply annoying someone is enough to deserve the anger, hate and hostility of others.

What a strange person you are, to think that you should be able to annoy others and not have to suffer any consequences for it."

Strange? To think that there is a difference between "anger, hate and hostility" and "any consequences"? No... I don't think so. I don't see the world in pure black and white. There's a large gap in between 'no consequence' and 'anger, hate and hostility', and lots of ways to act.

But I think you'll find (and Elmarko and Rahmota) that the thing that some of us here are trying to say is that people, in general, deserve respect -whether they annoy you or not - until (and only until) they cross a line... and even then, they deserve the respect you give to a human being. "Evil" is usually a term given to those who commit genocide, or rape, or child molestation. Trying to call a telemarketer 'Evil' is a little... overboard, I think.

BTW.. as to 'then don't just buy of them and it will stop" as has been suggested - problem is, sometimes they do actually have something worth buying. And sometimes, those charities just might be worth a bit of support (anyone recall Katrina??? No - I didn't, but then, I'm in a different country. But I do give to other charities...). And personally - I don't mind surveys


MadMike - I know your pain (well - not about kids ). But I have an answering machine - and I hear the click a fair bit. Also, when I hear silence on the end when I pick up - I know it's an autodial... so disconnect - though it's usually better to answer, and then say "don't ring again"...


Oh - last point, and hopefully an important one... (and yeah, I know it's a different country.. with a bit of freedom of speech and religion... but no guns to defend ourselves with...) but - GetUp Stats - especially P6. Which includes stuff like 77,000 sign an online petition which sees an $88 Million Federal Budget change, 104,000 sign an online petition - which makes politicians pull an anticipated bill, and 55,000 do an online petition to get an Aussie out of Gitmo - the PM then (and only then) starts to push for it as well! So... they can work - if you really want to put in the effort...

Slyt

[ElMarko]

2012?? What's so exciting about that year?

Neal (Niel!) Peart rises from the grave and Rush does reunion tour.

[ElMarko]

the only standards we're "trying to force on you" asking is the standard of being a decent fucking human being and treat others how you would want to be treated.

Let's compare telemarketers to kids making crank calls.

They both made no effort to determine if I was interrested.

They are both using the phone I paid for for their benefit without compensating me.

They both wasted my time.

They are both doing it for their own benefit. The kid for amusement the telemarketer for a check.

So we have one person who wasted my time for fun and another who did it for money.

Tell me why the person who did it for money shouldn't be held in more contempt than the kid who did it for fun. He/She is allegedly an adult who should know better.