Legality of intersection cameras?

[jackfaire]

To my mind that is like saying any evidence against you for a crime you committed is the accuser but it's not.

The traffic cam isn't accusing you of running a red light as it has no sentience with which to make that decision. It is however providing evidence that the police department filled with live human beings is using to accuse you of committing the crime.

If they have evidence you killed a person it isn't the knife or your finger prints on the knife that is accusing you it's the police department.

[Skunkle]

Exactly. His insistence is that, in any/every crime in which an accuser CAN be there in court, it MUST be - from square one (i.e. the first visit, no matter what that visit may be). I think his belief is that, if someone IS there, he stands a good chance of sweet-talking his way out and never coming back.

I read the Constitution in high school, and I'm sure he did, too. I'm pretty sure he remembers as much of it as I do - that is, next to nothing. But I'm guessing someone else told him all this, and seemed certain, so he believed it.

He used to have a buddy years ago who was a very crazy conspiracy theory type - I want to say Libertarian, but I'm sure there are lots of very sane Libertarians out there - who liked to claim there were many ways one could skirt the laws. One that he passed to my friend, along with all the printed paperwork describing it in full legalese I doubt anyone not versed in it could really understand, was a claim that you could amend your state driver's license with this statute, and you no longer had a 'driver's license' - you had an amended document which allowed you to basically tell the cops to f*** off. As far as I know, he only used it on a cop once, after running a yellow-turning-red and getting pulled over. The officer walked back and asked for his license, to which he replied, "I don't have one." Cue shock from the cop when he pulls out his license... and then he goes, "It is now an amended document, per statute something-something right here!" And the cop... shakes his head, walks away and drives off. VINDICATION!!! he says! IT WORKS!! I think, personally, that it didn't work as such - that the cop just thought he was nuts and didn't want to deal with a conspiracy nutjob.

My friend is, incidentally, not really a conspiracy person himself - but he seems to really enjoy thinking that being out to screw you over at any cost, including breaking the law, is just the way the average people all are, with few exceptions - not for any kind of deeper conspiracy per se, but just because everyone is all out for themselves. I've prodded him about this, and he admits it's partly because HE is out for himself above all, "screw anyone else" - but he claims that experience proves others are mostly like this, too.

Thanks everyone who has responded. If he was right, I wanted to know why, so I could make sure he understood it was more than "We hope you'll feel daunted by the traffic ticket you may or may not actually deserve and just pony up some cash! Gimme gimme money money!!" If he wasn't, I wanted to be able to have specifics to back up my explanation - otherwise he'll just keep insisting "You're wrong. Trust me, I'm old enough, I KNOW these things by now!"

[HYHYBT]

"If you squint hard and look at it sideways, you can squeeze this wild interpretation out of the Constitution/law" is not sound legal footing.

[Panacea]

The officer walked back and asked for his license, to which he replied, "I don't have one." Cue shock from the cop when he pulls out his license... and then he goes, "It is now an amended document, per statute something-something right here!" And the cop... shakes his head, walks away and drives off. VINDICATION!!! he says! IT WORKS!! I think, personally, that it didn't work as such - that the cop just thought he was nuts and didn't want to deal with a conspiracy nutjob.

But did he get a ticket or a warning?

The cop doesn't really give a rat's ass what you call the document as long as you hand him your driver's license when he asks for it.

Your friend is being an idiot. One of these days that crap is going to bite him in the ass when he runs into a cop who DOES want to make an issue of it.

[Seifer]

The people who complain about the cameras are usually the ones who like to run red lights. I have absolutely zero sympathy for them (and I don't give a shit about their opinions) because I was in a horrible accident that was caused by a dickhead running a red light and smashing into our car.

I also think I managed to prevent a huge collision once, because I (and the other car next to me in the second turn lane) noticed an oncoming car that was going WAY too fast when their light had already turned red. We both refused to move when our light turned green and, sure enough, the douchebag blew through a solid red light. Keep in mind, his light had to have been red for several seconds, since we saw him coming before and after our light had turned green.

[Greenday]

One that he passed to my friend, along with all the printed paperwork describing it in full legalese I doubt anyone not versed in it could really understand, was a claim that you could amend your state driver's license with this statute, and you no longer had a 'driver's license' - you had an amended document which allowed you to basically tell the cops to f*** off.

I know that he'd get arrested for trying to pull that in NJ. Messing with a license like that is against the law and could put him in jail. I thought it was a federal thing but I guess not.

[Skunkle]

But did he get a ticket or a warning?

The cop doesn't really give a rat's ass what you call the document as long as you hand him your driver's license when he asks for it.

Your friend is being an idiot. One of these days that crap is going to bite him in the ass when he runs into a cop who DOES want to make an issue of it.

No, he got nothing. As he told the story when I saw him later that day, the officer asked for his license, he said he didn't have a driver's license - pause for effect as the cop got the "You're in trouble, mister" look - then he holds up what is obviously a driver's license and says, "I have an amended document, per statute something-something" (which he had written onto the back). The officer then walked away and left, didn't say another word. Which is why I think the cop left because he thought my friend was crazy.

The people who complain about the cameras are usually the ones who like to run red lights. I have absolutely zero sympathy for them (and I don't give a shit about their opinions) because I was in a horrible accident that was caused by a dickhead running a red light and smashing into our car.

I'd agree completely. In this case, it isn't that. My friend tends to be a safe driver. He just thinks the city is out to get everyone and milk them for money, laws be damned. His general idea here is based on the fact that, in some places (though not around here, that I've heard about anyway) intersection cameras have been known to mail tickets to people who ran a yellow but not a red. His following is that, if and when that occurs (and I'm quite certain he thinks it's done intentional) you'll have no choice but to just pay the ticket - they won't give you a chance to argue your side, or they're hoping you won't even try.

Again, I'm betting he hasn't had this as a personal experience, but is likely coupling together what someone else has told him plus his own generalized opinion that everyone in general likes to try to trick you out of stuff. He also likes to be right. A good slice of his personality when he thinks someone is trying to bilk him is when he has a problem with his cell provider; he gets on the phone and yells their ear off. I've explained that politeness will make them want to help, and anger will make them not want to, and he says, "I don't give a fuck if it helps when I yell! It makes me feel good, dammit!"

[Greenday]

I've been researching it and honestly, I can find ANYTHING about this. So either I'm not googling hard enough or he's full of crap. Sounds like a made up story tbh.

[Skunkle]

Y'know, it occurred to me that this story might have come from his dad. He's very much of the "You know, Congress is hard at work trying to take away our guns so the police can walk all over us" types, and tends to think people are knowlingly breaking laws in order to control us better... Now that I consider it, there's a good chance he told this tale about traffic cameras being unconstitutional.

Had no idea how much of a "better stockpile now while it's legal" type he was 'til I helped him move out of the house he'd occupied for decades (he moved out of state, friend didn't go with) and he showed me "secret" panels in the basement, behind which were about fifteen big old green steel ammo cans FULL of ammunition.

[Rapscallion]

Doesn't that gear have a use-by date on it? I'm no expert, but even I'm aware that ammunition needs using within a reasonable period.

Rapscallion

[Andara Bledin]

Gunpowder loses stability over time, making it less safe to use. However, bullets are sealed, so if you keep them cool and dry, they can maintain integrity for decades, possibly even a century.

A lot of people suggest that you just cycle your ammo, buying new rounds and firing off the old ones as you go, which has an added benefit of keeping yourself familiar with the characteristics of both your firearm and the ammo you're using.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

The people who complain about the cameras are usually the ones who like to run red lights. I have absolutely zero sympathy for them

Even when paired with abnormally short yellows?

[Hyena Dandy]

No, he got nothing. As he told the story when I saw him later that day, the officer asked for his license, he said he didn't have a driver's license - pause for effect as the cop got the "You're in trouble, mister" look - then he holds up what is obviously a driver's license and says, "I have an amended document, per statute something-something" (which he had written onto the back). The officer then walked away and left, didn't say another word. Which is why I think the cop left because he thought my friend was crazy.

See, I think he was just making it up.

[Andara Bledin]

Even when paired with abnormally short yellows?

If you can prove that the light in question does not stay yellow for long enough for someone going the speed limit to safely come to a complete stop prior to the light turning red, then do so and get it fixed.

If you just thought the light would stay yellow longer even though you could have stopped, then suck it up and stop doing that.

^-.-^

[Greenday]

Doesn't that gear have a use-by date on it? I'm no expert, but even I'm aware that ammunition needs using within a reasonable period.

Rapscallion

It degrades over time, but clearly not that fast. Some of the Afghans still use old Russian ammunition left over from the war decades ago and they definitely still work quite well.