Can making an odservation make you racist/sext/whatever....

[Rapscallion]

A couple of times at McDonald's, I have ordered Iced Tea only to have the person think I said Hi-C and give me that. My first drink was quite a shock. I'm Caucasian, too.

Got me curious - what is that drink? Some sort of concentrated orange?

Rapscallion

[Gravekeeper]

Got me curious - what is that drink? Some sort of concentrated orange?

It's what a chemistry set thinks oranges taste like.

Its basically the very essence of a corporate mass produced product. "Orange Drink" is as specific a description as you could muster for it. It's corn syrup, food colouring, vegetable oil ( seriously ) and "flavour"

It's the orange juice equivalent of Soylent Green. ( Actually, Soylent Green had more real ingredients. )

[Rapscallion]

Sort of drunk as a penance, by the sounds of it.

Rapscallion

[Gravekeeper]

Sort of drunk as a penance, by the sounds of it.

Rapscallion

I'm guessing the assumption is that it's poor white trash dietary fare and thus being white, he must have meant Hi-C. Not sure about over there, but over here there's a connection between "cheap artifical orange drink" and "poor" and/or "white trash". Starting with Orange Tang. ;p

[Canarr]

My first impressions from reading those were I had problems with 1, 2 and 3. 1 seems like an attempt to generalize gay people, 2 I don't see what the point in mentioning which races drive which cars are and it was related to something he didn't like which implies an extension to black people, and 3 comes off sexist.

Agreed. Although #3 probably is, in essence, correct, it's worded in a way that makes the speaker come across as ignorant. It's basically saying, "Rape? Bah! Half the time them broads are lying,anyway!" Once you've brought in a statement like that, any additions to it aren't going to matter anymore. Andara already mentioned a better way to phrase this.

#4 is worded strangely, yes. Don't really know enough about South Florida to comment on the situation there, either.

Generally, it's a mixed issue. Yes, oversensitivity is a problem, but then again, so is ignorance. And if that vlogger from the first example truly didn't see anything wrong with her "observation", then that speaks volumes of her, and none of them good.

[Boozy]

This thread's titular question is faulty. Making an observation doesn't make someone racist; it only has the potential to out someone as racist. It often does.

The "Hi-C" question is interesting. I have no idea if this particular product is more popular with blacks than with whites, but there are undoubtedly products that are more popular with one race than another. Whether it's how they're marketed, or for cultural reasons.

So mentioning that Hi-C is more popular with blacks than whites depends on the context. I'm rather uncomfortable with people making this observation based on their "personal experience". One's personal experience can be influenced by confirmation bias.

On the other hand, a marketing executive could make a similar observation in a meeting and not necessarily sound racist. It depends on whether or not he's got the numbers to back him up, and what he's proposing.

[siead_lietrathua]

i dont think observational comments are nessesarily racist. observing that most gang violence seems to be commited by minorities is no diffrent than observing most serial killers tend to be white. *shrug*
it really dependss on the tone of the observer though. if they say it with venom in their voice other than in a casual tone for instance. i have alot of racist coworkers that i end up having to but heads with because they take an observation and make it into an insult instead of a comment.


just a little sidenote:

i think whats missing the most in any inflammatory statement used so far is the whole "I think" phrase.
if someone says "all ____ are rude and ignorant" it can cause problems cuz it sounds like they are stating a fact. but if they said "I THINK all ___ are..." then it is easier to disregard because it's obviously an opinion instead of something being presented as truth.
its also missing from the other side though. even if someone doesnt type the "i think" out, its really what they mean. if the people reading/hearing these statements just mentally inserted the "i think" into it then it would also prevent some flamewars. optimistically.

[fireheart17]

I've been labelled racist once for pointing out something. It wasn't entirely racist.

Short background: the company I used to work for provided petrol vouchers for a certain amount spent in store. People abused this frequently.

The observation I had noticed was that more often than not, Asian people tended to either round up their shopping total to the minimum for the fuel voucher, or they would split their shopping. REPEATEDLY. It seemed to occur more often with that particular group, but I treated them equally regardless.

I pointed this out to a guy I went to uni with, only to be told that I was racist. -.-

[siead_lietrathua]

@fireheart
see i wouldnt find that racist. but my coworkers would add in an insult along the lines of "those cheap bastards need so many coupons to since they cant drive worth a shit and need the extra gas" or something equally inflammatory.

[HEMI6point1]

4 itself doesn't really make sense to me. Something's off about the wording of the sentence that makes it make no sense to me.

#4 is worded strangely, yes. Don't really know enough about South Florida to comment on the situation there, either.

I've been in South Florida for over 7 years now. Basically, here is what I was telling my buddy, a little clearer:

First off, much of South Florida is white (until you start getting down to Miami.... then it's basically North Cuba LOL). However, many of the caucasian women down here are attracted to members of the Latino (Porto Rican) and African American persuasion. Don't know why, it's just the way it is.

Maybe comedian Ralphie May has the answer LOL: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sUK_VsmuJA - Warning: language.

Plus, on another side note a lot more women smoke down here than I have ever seen when I was in NY. It kinda leaves a non-smoking white guy like me feel a bit.... left out.

[Giggle Goose]

Generally speaking if you're about to make a negative observation based on race, gender or orientation, its probably best to just shut up. Its too fine a line to walk and someone is going to see you slip even if you don't. -.-

^^This, times infinity! Most of us are worldly enough (or have seen enough stand-up comedy) to know what common stereotypes are and what attitudes are likely to sound offensive. When in doubt, just keep it to yourself.

[Cymberleah]

And sometimes there are observations you don't get to make, just because you don't want the appearance of racism.

Case in point:

On Tuesday, I was getting gas. I am the second car in the left-hand turn lane to the driveway for the station. I am behind a black sedan, and this sedan is rather picky as to when it will make its turn. There was one beautiful gap, then one that was less beautiful (but still perfectly serviceable) that the driver eschewed. Finally, the turn is made.

In the mediocre gap in front of the oncoming semi.

By the time the car turned, the driveway was backed up, so 80% of the car was still in the intersection when it had no more space to go forward. The semi truck swerved to avoid the idiot, which then had it aimed right at me. I was lucky that the intersection was deep enough that he could slalom between us, otherwise, well, when it's semi driving at 40MPH v. Toyota Tacoma at a full stop, the semi wins and the loser gets a nice pretty box for her mortal remains.

As I pull into the gas station, I am, of course, curious as to who was driving the Idiot Car. When the driver gets out to pump gas, it is a middle-aged Asian (Chinese or Korean, not sure which) woman. -_- So there goes that part of the anecdote, as something that cliche and sharing too many similarities with misogynist and racist stories would just retract from my tale of A Close Encounter With Doom Due To An Idiot (Who Totally Wasn't Me; I Was Innocent, I Swear!).

A good rule of thumb: if you're about to say something that can be taken the wrong way, take a moment and try to rephrase things to make you less likely to be branded a jerk.

[bara]

A good rule of thumb: if you're about to say something that can be taken the wrong way, take a moment and try to rephrase things to make you less likely to be branded a jerk.

A good rule, but no matter how you phrase it, if some jackhole wants to take offense you cant stop them and you still end up being the one that must defend your position.

When in doubt, dont say anything. A policy that might get you branded as antisocial, but thats better than the alternatives I think.

[Panacea]

....If you really said nothing in the observation like slurs, insults or anything of the sort during the observation?

Four cases in point:

1. A Youtube vlogger posted an opinion about a certain gorgeous blonde actress coming out as a lesbian <snip> During the vlog this girl said, "It's not surprising when a woman like [former talk show host host] comes out as lesbian but when a gorgeous woman like [blonde actress] comes out, it makes me wonder what turned her. Was she sexually abused as a child or something?"

This vlogger doesn't know this actress or anything about her. To even ask that question is offensive; it implies that only ugly women are lesbian, which is not true at all. It also implies that there must be something wrong with a woman if she is a lesbian. The talk show host in question (Ellen Degeneres, I'm assuming) is not an ugly woman. She simply does not choose to highlight herself in such a way as to make herself "drop dead gorgeous" because that's not her desire.

The question also implies that to be gay or lesbian one must have been abused. False. It's an issue of biology. Not choice. Not a consequence of tragedy.

Finally, the whole issue didn't even need to be brought up in the first place. Who cares if this woman is a lesbian or not? It's just not an issue when it comes to her acting ability or lack thereof. Yes, she chose to make it an issue herself by bringing it up. The vlogger chose to take the bait. She could have ignored it.

---

2. A member of an auto enthusiast forum made a post about how stupid "donks" are. For those who don't know, a "donk" is a common name for those cars that are raised up higher and have those giant rims put on them (For the record, I can't stand it when I see these classic cars given the "donk" treatment either). The member stated that it he's only ever since one white guy driving a donk. The rest of the time it's a black guy in the car blasting his gangsta rap. I stayed out of this one, just sat back and watched the thread.

The forum mod made him edit his post citing "racism," threatening to ban him.
But how was it racist? Was slurs like the N word used? How was the guy racist for simply.... making an observation?

Because the issue of race isn't germane to the issue of "do donks look stupid." It doesn't matter who is driving the car. It only matters what the car looks like. When that poster chose to bring race into the subject, he made a racist comment. If the forum is moderated, the moderator has the right to make the OP fix the comment. Race doesn't need to be injected into the observation, so yes . . . this guy is being racist with his comment.

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Now time for two things that got ME labeled....

3. I got called a sexist prick once on a debate board a long time ago because I said I wouldn't be surprised if half of all reported rapes are lies by the woman to either move an agenda forward, or get back at a guy for whatever reason.

The thing is, I even wrote that the fake cases are the reason why a lot of women who are legitimately raped are afraid to come forward with it, because a lot of people assumed she's lying about it.
<snip>

Another example: A long time ago in NY 3 high school girls accused their teacher of sexually assaulting them. The poor guy sat in jail for a year until they admitted they made it up. What did he do to deserve that? Failing them on a college prep test.

First of all, let me say I do not condone what those three girls did. They filed a false police report, resulting in false imprisonment. They should be charged with a criminal act and do jail time, plus pay restitution to the teacher.

However, the rest of your argument is based on false premises, and is sexist (though I wouldn't go so far as to call you a prick, just misguided).

Women don't fear reporting rapes because of issues like the one you cited. They fear reporting rapes because:

1. They do fear being accused of making it up or not being believed. But those fears are centuries old, not recent phenomenom. It doesn't help that many women are raped when intoxicated or given "roofies" and cant' remember exactly what happened.
2. They fear reporting a rape because the culture is predisposed to blaming the woman. This is prevalent in places like Afghanistan (where a woman was imprisoned for being raped; convicted of having sex with her rapist even though it was not voluntary on her part), but is also prevalent even in industrialized countries like the US, Western Europe, and Australia. "She brought it on herself, look how she dresses." "She must have led him on." "She let him take her out to dinner, she owes him."

Worse, in many people's minds a spouse cannot rape a spouse. So if she's married to him, it's not rape in the eyes of the law. Well, if she says no, she means no. It is still rape. Fortunately, laws are changing to reflect this.

3. They fear reporting a rape because of the consequences. Many women are raped by men they KNOW. Friends, acquaintances, even relatives. They fear being attacked again. Even in the case of a stranger rape, they fear being attacked again; many rapists threaten this to silence their victims because it WORKS.

You have to understand, rape is the most intensely violent thing a man can do to a woman. Rape isn't about sex . . . it's about CONTROL. The rapist takes that control away from the woman and invades her body.

That being said, it is true some women falsely cry rape. It is the job of law enforcement and a SANE nurse (Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner) to collect evidence and determine what really happened. The lay public should not assume that most rape claims are false, because most are NOT false.
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4. One day I was chatting with a few buddies when I told them that "in South Florida, it more than being financially stable to find a girl to date. For reason, if you're not Porto Rican or black, you're screwed if you're a white guy." My friend said, "I know you so I know you didn't mean it to come off as such but if I didn't I would say you're being a little racist there."

Really? When I made no insults or slurs directed at those races? I simply told him, "If I made the observation that you have to be purple skinned with green hair to get a girl down here, I would say that you have to be purple skinned with green hair to get a girl down here! Simple." Nothing racist about that.

It's a racist statement because again, there was NO need to inject race into the conversation. Quite frankly, I think you need to re-evaluate your approach to women if you are having a hard time finding a date. Did it not occur to you that the problem might be YOU?

Got me curious - what is that drink? Some sort of concentrated orange?

Sort of drunk as a penance, by the sounds of it.

It's an artificially flavored, uncarbonated drink that I find completely nasty, so yes being forced to drink it would be a form of penance to me

Other than that, I'm not sure I understand why that ended up in this thread. Maybe there's a stereotype out there I haven't heard of in this case.

[Aethian]

Personally I love Hi-C and Tang... Hi-C from a box in my lunch box and Tang when I can't sleep at night.


As for the topic at hand I'm still have troubles with my own boyfriend at times because to me, mentioning migrant workers is racist to him. Even tho he knows I don't mean it as a slam or anything it's one of those things that we work around.