Can making an odservation make you racist/sext/whatever....

[Hyena Dandy]

Why add the descriptor at all? The answer is, we are being lazy and not thinking about what we are saying.

Because otherwise we'll forget. We need some way to tag them if they're not someone we know, otherwise we won't remember what we were talking about. We tag them with their most notable feature. The racism comes from their most notable feature being that they were black (or fat, or female, or gay, or what have you). Otherwise it would fade out of our memory. It's not being lazy, it's human nature.

It would be nice if we were able to avoid making tags based on race. I've made an effort to start tagging people in my head other ways. "That woman with the large crucifix", "The guy who spoke too loud," etc.

But making a tag at all isn't being lazy, it's just doing what people do.

this one i immediatly disagree with because many places have id if looks under ___ rules, so the age is a factor.
and again, using age/race/sex as a descriptive tool is not ageist/racist/sexist unless the intent behind it is agist/racist/sexist. i mean, really, what's next. cant desribe people by hair colour cuz its too closely tied to race? body type because it could be seen as a form of weightism? mention they have glasses or a cane and suddenly you hate people with disabilities?
what if you are saying positive things? that this sexy black woman came through your checkout, or this really hot asian guy. are you now being racist against other races because you found that one person hot?
seriously. my head is exploding from this. it makes no sense to me O_O

It's not something someone should be in trouble for. As I said, all forms of racism are bad, but they're not EQUALLY bad. And the fact that you notice that the man is black, or Asian, doesn't necessarily mean you're a member of the KKK. It's racist, but on a different level, and should be treated differently.

[Canarr]

if an asian man that spoke english well was ranting about another asian man that didnt speak it properly, and used race as a disriptor, is that still racist?

That question, in itself, shows ignorance.

The people you classify as "Asian" are, amongst themselves, vastly different. They don't really have any common identity, the way Americans may have, since they aren't part of the same countries, or even of the same heritage.

Chinese people consider themselves Chinese, not Asian; and yes, they may rant about Japanese, or Koreans, or Malaysians, and be prejudiced there - or not. Don't know if "racist" is the correct term, but bigotry exists there, same as everywhere.

Try asking that same question, but replace "Asian" with "European". Me, I'm German. Due to a couple of thousand years of history, I have practically no common identity with someone in Latvia, or Finland, or Sardinia, or Portugal - even though we all are, technically, European. We all have our own culture, traditions, quirks and flaws, and we aren't the same, even though we all live in Europe. So, someone ranting about a Polish or Dutch guy not speaking enough English to do his job does not reflect on me.

[bara]

That question, in itself, shows ignorance.

The people you classify as "Asian" are, amongst themselves, vastly different. They don't really have any common identity, the way Americans may have, since they aren't part of the same countries, or even of the same heritage.

Not necessarily. I can tell most Asian cultures apart, but many cannot. Therefore if someone referring to a chinese person as asian would be accurate, and mislabeling them as korean would be rude.

[siead_lietrathua]

That question, in itself, shows ignorance.

The people you classify as "Asian" are, amongst themselves, vastly different. .....

Try asking that same question, but replace "Asian" with "European". .....

i can tell diffrences between various asian cultures.
i can also tell the diffrence between various european cultures.
there are also diffrent cultures in the middle eastern people, native americans, africans, and any other lump-term you want to use.
however this sideline you went on has nothing to do with what i posted, and distracts from the point of the question.
so, to bring it back to point, how about we alter the question? and to an example i have seen IRL?
an italian woman mocking another italian for their heavy accent when speaking english. it that racist?
(if i remember right her words were along the line of "i cant understand a word that italian lady's saying, and i AM italian!!")

why would it be ok for an italian to taunt an italian but if a black person were to do the same its now racist? even though the modivation is from the exact same issue, the language barrier. isnt pointing to the person of diffrent race and calling them a racist, technically, racist? because if they were both italian it wouldnt matter.

[DrFaroohk]

WOuld confusing another race be racist? I am in that regard. I mean, there's Asian people, which to most people means japanese, chinese, korean, etc...I can't tell them apart. Then you have the "brown" people. Hmmm...is he...spanish? Is he middle eastern? Just a really ligt skinned black guy or a dark skinned white guy?

But that would be like me getting upset because no one can tell just exactly what kind of white I am.

[guywithashovel]

this one i immediatly disagree with because many places have id if looks under ___ rules, so the age is a factor.
and again, using age/race/sex as a descriptive tool is not ageist/racist/sexist unless the intent behind it is agist/racist/sexist. i mean, really, what's next. cant desribe people by hair colour cuz its too closely tied to race? body type because it could be seen as a form of weightism? mention they have glasses or a cane and suddenly you hate people with disabilities?
what if you are saying positive things? that this sexy black woman came through your checkout, or this really hot asian guy. are you now being racist against other races because you found that one person hot?
seriously. my head is exploding from this. it makes no sense to me O_O

This is the point I was trying to make earlier, but I'm not sure I got it across.

It is said that casually saying "That black guy was a jerk" (no tone of voice, body language, etc. to suggest that his race is being connected with his behavior) is racist because his race has nothing to do with his behavior. Yes, his race has nothing to do with his behavior. Really, it doesn't. I *don't* negatively stereotype people based on ethnicity, gender, etc. I don't have any biases. I'm not racist. Ask any of my friends, coworkers, etc. who are of different ethnicities than me. They'll tell you. To me, race/skin color is just one of the many features that we all have. That's why I see nothing wrong with using it as a descriptor. It's just a physical feature no different than hair color, eye color, height, etc.

HOWEVER, by saying "That black guy was a jerk" I'm also calling attention to the fact that the person was male. Am I also connecting his gender to his behavior? Should I also not say "That guy was a jerk" because I might be implying that all men are jerks and might offend men?

I could say "That guy with brown hair wearing the white shirt" was a jerk." But maybe by saying that I'm suggesting that everyone with brown hair is a jerk, or that everyone who wears a white shirt is a jerk. I could say "That tall guy is a jerk," but could that be implying that all tall people are jerks? (And if so, exactly what height do you have to be to be "tall?")

Seriously, unless there is something about the person's tone of voice or overall demeanor that makes it obvious that they are connecting the offending person's race with their behavior, there is nothing wrong with it, and there is no need to make a big deal out of it. Sure, I could say, "That woman in the red dress" (and in many cases I do use such descriptions to describe people). However, maybe the skin color was just the first thing to occur to me, and that was what came out of my mouth when I described the person. That doesn't make me a bad person.

Remember, "racist" is a very serious thing to accuse someone of being, so make sure you're not doing it unless it's obvious the person is.

[BlaqueKatt]

However, maybe the skin color was just the first thing to occur to me, and that was what came out of my mouth when I described the person. That doesn't make me a bad person.

maybe not but personally I'd wonder why skin color was the first thing you thought of as a descriptor.

my coworker Shawn is just that, my coworker Shawn, as are Ben, Karrie, Marlo, and Mikki.

one is African(as in born in Nigeria), one is American(southern), one is Cherokee, and one is Japanese. Two are also Irish, two are German, one is French-canadian, two are hunters, three are gamers,one is single the rest are married(though one has a same-gender partner) and one was in the army and went to military school. I don't say my Nigerian coworker, or my Cherokee coworker, because to me they don't need a descriptor, or a label beyond coworker if I'm telling you a story about Ben or Mikki, or Marlo does it really matter?

[siead_lietrathua]

but thats someone you know on a personal basis, not through a 1-2 minute transaction as a customer you may never see again.
if someone asked you to elabourate which coworker, you would tell them shawn. if they didnt know which one shawn was? then you come down to *gasp* physical decription. and you cant rely on clothing alone if you all wear uniforms, so race might just come into it! but that doesnt magically make you racist against shawn, it just means you are describing his physical apperance!

other example, again from my life. i have a few friends with the same name, lets use "paul". out of all of them, 2 are short with dark hair and eyes, and a similar build. if i was to use those descriptions it could be either paul. but one paul is white, and the other is black. so using race, everyone else knows exactly which paul i am talking about. it doesnt mean i am a racist for saying one paul is black or white. it means i am friggan decribing paul.
oh, and if i called black paul "black-paul" infront of him, as i have before, he would not give a flying fark.
(actually knowing him, he would continue the trend of making sexual chocolate jokes)

[Hyena Dandy]

Remember, "racist" is a very serious thing to accuse someone of being, so make sure you're not doing it unless it's obvious the person is.

See, this is assuming 'racist' is a homogenous term. You can be racist on a different level. Being slightly nervous around black people is not the same as being in the KKK. Having race be a way you file someone away for short-term reference is not as bad as being nervous around black people. It's still racism, and it's still bad, but it's not equivalent.

It's like thinking gay people shouldn't be married is not the same as actively working against gay marriage, is not the same as killing gays in the street.

[Panacea]

but isnt the perception that he only cares about the problem because of a persons race simply another form of racism? so shouldnt the perception that mentioning race is racist also be changed with the perception of race being negative?
if an asian man that spoke english well was ranting about another asian man that didnt speak it properly, and used race as a disriptor, is that still racist?

Caring about the problem of race is not in of itself racism. Being concerned about it, wanting to take action to change behaviors and fix it is not racism.

It would only be racism if you did it in such a way as to be patronizing. But calling someone on an inappropriate comment is not patronizing. Behaving as if a person can't defend themselves would be, but we haven't discussed any situations like that.

I don't understand your second question.

As for the third, possibly it could be a form of racism. Asia is a pretty big continent, and some of the cultural groups that live there don't like each other very much: for example, Koreans and Japanese.

But really, you're just nit picking at this point. The bottom line is still this: if race has nothing to do with the topic at hand don't bring it up.

[bara]

The bottom line is still this: if race has nothing to do with the topic at hand don't bring it up.

And if it is brought up don't automatically jump to the conclusion that whoever said it is being a racist prick.

[Hyena Dandy]

And if it is brought up don't automatically jump to the conclusion that whoever said it is being a racist prick.

As I've been trying to say, racist, yes. Prick, no. It's not malicious, it's not intentional, it shouldn't be really thought of as anything too bad. It's more of a 'I'd watch that if I were you' than an 'OH MY GOD YOU'RE A TERRIBLE PERSON'

edit: Spent too much time RPing ponies today, I said "You're a terrible pony!"

[Seifer]

1. A Youtube vlogger posted an opinion about a certain gorgeous blonde actress coming out as a lesbian (Hint: she starred in a failed drama about a certain club named after a men's mag). Personally I think it's a phase but whatever. During the vlog this girl said, "It's not surprising when a woman like [former talk show host host] comes out as lesbian but when a gorgeous woman like [blonde actress] comes out, it makes me wonder what turned her. Was she sexually abused as a child or something?"

This actually is pretty offensive. Whether she meant to or not, she's basically saying that only ugly women have a "reason" to become lesbians. "If you're pretty, why would you not want a man around? YOU MUST HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED, IT'S THE ONLY EXPLANATION!!1!"

3. I got called a sexist prick once on a debate board a long time ago because I said I wouldn't be surprised if half of all reported rapes are lies by the woman to either move an agenda forward, or get back at a guy for whatever reason.

This is offensive because it sounds like you're saying that half of the female population is willing to put a man in jail and lie about something as serious as rape just to get the satisfaction of one-upping him. It's downplaying all of the true rapes, and legitimizes the opinions of those who think women are lying, conniving whores.

a.k.a "She says she was raped? Pfft, what a crock of shit. Everyone knows she's the town whore. She probably just changed her mind afterward and wants to save face."

OR

"Maybe if she didn't spread her legs all the time, men wouldn't be tempted!"

[siead_lietrathua]

As I've been trying to say, racist, yes. Prick, no. It's not malicious, it's not intentional, it shouldn't be really thought of as anything too bad. It's more of a 'I'd watch that if I were you' than an 'OH MY GOD YOU'RE A TERRIBLE PERSON'

no, see, it doesnt work that way. noting the race of a person around you is no diffrent than noting hair colour, eye colour, their height or gender or anything else that is a physcial discription. unless we start gouging out the eyes of people, they are always going to see what people look like and their diffrences. its what we do with that information that can or cannot make us a racist, sexist, or agist person.

maybe this is just irking me on a personal level. i dont treat people diffrently because of their race. im not uncomfortable around diffrent races, or unsociable to people based on race, age, gender or anything else. i dislike very much that someone would lump me into the racist catagory because i have eyes and can see the diffrences in people around me. you can see diffrences and still embrace it. geez.

[siead_lietrathua]

Caring about the problem of race is not in of itself racism. Being concerned about it, wanting to take action to change behaviors and fix it is not racism....
I don't understand your second question.
As for the third, possibly it could be a form of racism...
But really, you're just nit picking at this point. The bottom line is still this: if race has nothing to do with the topic at hand don't bring it up....

caring about racism and wanting to end it isnt a problem, i agree. however banning people from ever mentioning race unless it is relevant (and i'm sorry but using it to describe a person can be relevant) is not the way to end it. teaching people to embrace diffrences is not the same as telling them to just never mention that there is a diffrence.

the second question can be boiled down to is reverse-racism ok? assuming a white person is racist because they mention someone is black IS a form of racism. the old "only the white man can be racist" steriotype.

the third i further clarified in another post.

race may not have to do withthe topic at hand but if i am describing my friend "paul" to someone during a conversation and i mention his race, that doesnt magically make me a racist person. it means i can SEE!

(and yes i double posted intentionally)