Another bullying related death, this time the victim is all right.

[fireheart17]

He's old enough to know better. And if his learning disability puts him so far behind mentally, he should be at a different school that focuses on kids with learning disabilities.

There could be any number of reasons why the kid is not at a special school. No schools in the area, if there are they could be full, there may not be enough funding for the schools etc.

Of course the bully didn't stop when he got stabbed. You think he should just stand there and take it? "Oh, go ahead and continue stabbing me. I'll just stand here and let you go on, shall I?" No, he was fighting for his life at that point from someone trying to kill him.

I'll re-iterate the point I made in my previous post and the comments that someone said in the article-bully had martial arts training. He KNEW how to inflict serious damage from a punch. Kid with knife had no formal training.

[SkullKing]

I didn't see any proof that it was an attempt to get away from them. The word of a defendant doesn't mean a whole lot.

Correct me If I am wrong, but from what I gather it is the word of the defendant AND the witnesses

Of course the bully didn't stop when he got stabbed. You think he should just stand there and take it? "Oh, go ahead and continue stabbing me. I'll just stand here and let you go on, shall I?" No, he was fighting for his life at that point from someone trying to kill him.

Or he could have backed down, runned away, called the police.

all viable alternatives.

[AdminAssistant]

I think it's very easy to pass a death sentence on the bully, especially when you've been a victim of bullying. It's easy to forget that the bully is also just a kid, also experiencing peer pressure. In this case, Bully's Friends seem more at fault for the incident than the Bully.

The ruling...eh. I see both sides. I would like to see the kid punished for bringing a deadly weapon with intent to harm to a fucking school. Because there needs to be a clear message sent that this is NOT an okay way to deal with bullying. We don't need parents to start arming their children, saying, "Well, just kill them. It'll be self-defense."

[SkullKing]

I don´t think anyone here passed a death sentence on the bully.

I young man died and that is said. All that we are saying is that the victim shouldn´t be punished for the defense against his assailant.

I could understand the school applying some punishment like suspention or disciplinary action for bringing the knife to school since it is probably forbidden.

But I am against a legal punishment for the kid.


And this is most certainly not an okay way to deal with bulling. The school and the cops should have been penalized for the way they handled the kid´s appeal for help(maybe the parents too)

[Lace Neil Singer]

I know, personally, at least 6 people who were bullied in school until the day they snapped and beat their attackers to within an inch of their lives.

This. This is what happened to me. I was bullied all thru secondary school; at first, I tried to walk away and ignore the bullies, but it didn't work. Eventually, in third year, I snapped and beat the living shit out of the bully who attacked me. I was driven to it; she scratched my face and drew blood, and that wasn't the first time she'd done something similar be it scratching, pulling my hair or tripping me up. Everyone has their breaking point. If I'd carried a weapon, I could well have stabbed that girl. Instead, given that I was bigger than her and weighed at least twice as much as her, I pulverised her.

I got a week's suspension; she got... nothing. But at least the bullying tailed off and eventually stopped, tho I had to lay down a few more smackdowns before the more thickheaded bitches got the message to leave me alone. The school did nothing before that to stop the bullies and nothing after, cept label me as a troublemaker who started fights and imply that the bullying was my own fault. No-one who's never been bullied can ever understand just how much it damages you mentally to go thru that day after day. I developed an eating disorder and self harmed as a result of the torment I went thru every time I went to school. I don't blame this kid who was driven to the edge; I know exactly how that feels.

[bara]

Cops were aware.
Parents were aware.
Teachers were aware.

No one did a damn thing to help this kid.

He did not have the knife with the intent to hurt/kill/maim... only intent was to protect himself.

I was bullied pretty badly in middle school. Told a few teachers and NOTHING was done.
Told my dad about it. Dad called the cops then the school in that order. Cops came to the school, pulled those two out of class and told them that if they so much as looked at me the wrong way they would get arrested. Id have kicked the kids ass except it was always two together.

Shortly after that one of them got arrested anyway. I cant remember what for but no one ever saw him again and the other one ended up getting arrested a couple of years later and I never saw him again either. They are probably residents of the state pen nowadays.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

He's old enough to know better. And if his learning disability puts him so far behind mentally, he should be at a different school that focuses on kids with learning disabilities.

I didn't see any proof that it was an attempt to get away from them. The word of a defendant doesn't mean a whole lot.

I've seen no proof to say that it was going to go beyond a regular school fight.

I respect your opinions, but I must disagree with you on a few things.

I don't think the implication here is that any act of bullying can be responded to with lethal force by the victim and that's ok.

In my case it wasn't the occasional teasing or taunting, or a punch in the face or a shove here or there. It was relentless, it was constant, it never stopped. It was continual physical abuse. The kind of abuse that can easily break a person down and send them over a cliff.

I would never consider it reasonable to stab a kid just because he called me some stupid names.

But in my mental state at the time (and I do not have a learning disability for the record), I DID think it might be reasonable to inflict serious, if not fatal harm on the bullies because I felt it was the only way for the abuse to STOP.

The school couldn't do anything, the cops probably would not have been able to do anything either. Let's face it, it wasn't realistic to have a bodyguard or supervisor with me every second of every school day, which is pretty much what it would have taken to keep me safe.

Did these kids ever directly threaten my life? No.
Did they show me a weapon? No.

But I still felt that realistically there probably wasn't a limit as to how far they were willing to go. They had already demonstrated that they would harass and physically harm me every day at school, chase or harass me while I was out in public and prank call my house. They even threatened my dad with physical harm when he called one of the prank callers back and told them to knock it off and leave me alone.

So once again, we are not talking about "average" bullying here, if there is such a thing. We are talking about an extreme. A relentless assault, both physically and emotionally, on a boy both at school and beyond.

I knew how far they were willing to go. I had to decide how far I was willing to go to protect myself. Would I have killed one of them? I think I easily could have if it came right down to it.

[Mytical]

Some people may have more control then others, though I am one of the most calm and in control person I know. Either they have never been afraid for their life, with no possibility of escape..and can pass judgement from a safe distance, or they have been..and are a much better person then I.

Pain and fear, especially when flight is not an option, is something primal. You can corner the nicest, most gentle creature in the world..and suddenly that creature will make a wild grizzly look tame. The witnesses admitted that the boy tried to get away, to avoid the situation. Flight was stopped, and it become fight.

Does it suck that somebody died? Absolutely. Nobody here is detracting from the tragedy that happened. Is the boy at fault. No. When you corner somebody (doesn't have to be a literal corner) and the option of getting away is off the table, sometimes instinct kicks in. A lot of the time, yes, we can overcome that instinct. When you are very scared, and pushed to your limit, anything can happen.

We do not know what is in the boys mind, so saying it was on purpose is like me saying "I know Greenday likes pink ponies and dressing in tutu's" I don't know Greenday, so how in the world would I know that?

For those who think it will set some sort of precedent..no worries there. You think this is the first time something like this has happened? Honestly?

[HYHYBT]

I've seen no proof to say that it was going to go beyond a regular school fight.

Specifically what legal provision separates "regular school fights" from other violent assault situations? What provisions provide that the burden of proof is on the original victim to prove he *really was in danger of his life* rather than only reasonably thinking he was (and surely, SURELY it's reasonable to think so given the number on the other side and the fact that even what you inexcusably dismiss as just "regular school fights" often cause serious injury or worse) before self defense may be successfully claimed? Where is there a requirement that self-defense only qualifies as such if it doesn't involve being armed, no matter how many people are ganging up on you? For that matter, would you still call it murder if the exact same actions were carried out, but in the context of a theft rather than what you dismissively treat as kids just being kids?

[Greenday]

Specifically what legal provision separates "regular school fights" from other violent assault situations?

None, but I'm not debating law, am I? I'm debating the fact that this kid murdered someone and a lot of people seem to be okay with that because they were bullied in their past and it's definitely affecting their decision making.

I was bullied in school. I kicked the crap out of one to prove a point when I hit my snapping point, but I didn't bring a knife to school with the intent of stabbing someone and I certainly didn't keep going once I won.

Cops were aware.
Parents were aware.
Teachers were aware.

This is news to me. Nowhere have I seen any evidence that'd point to this.

[Gravekeeper]

He's old enough to know better. And if his learning disability puts him so far behind mentally, he should be at a different school that focuses on kids with learning disabilities.

But he's not, he takes ESE classes and besides, this point is irrelevant as the kid has no control over this.

I didn't see any proof that it was an attempt to get away from them. The word of a defendant doesn't mean a whole lot.

He attempted to get away multiple times. There were several witnesses. At least 10 kids were present plus a nearby adult that noticed the commotion. We're not pulling this out of our ass. This is what actually happened. This entire altercation took place in the open in front of a whole group of witnesses. These are findings of fact.

Thank you for telling me something I know. A good friend's brother was beat to death three years ago on St. Patricks Day and died as a result of blows to the back of the head.

And yet you're arguing this kid was perfectly safe in this situation?

Of course the bully didn't stop when he got stabbed. You think he should just stand there and take it? "Oh, go ahead and continue stabbing me. I'll just stand here and let you go on, shall I?" No, he was fighting for his life at that point from someone trying to kill him.

Total bullshit. He was NOT fighting for his life. He was running on adrenaline and didn't even realised he'd been stabbed so he kept on pummelling so the other kid kept on stabbing. They were both basically on autopilot. We're not making this shit up. These are the court documents and witness statements.

I've seen no proof to say that it was going to go beyond a regular school fight.

Then you've got your eyes shut. This didn't take place on school grounds, it was preceeded by a year's worth of torment and threats. Plus threats all that day. Plus when he tried to escape they followed him off the bus. Then Bully jumped him from behind with a sucker punch to the back of the head. He STILL tried to run. Bully caught him and punched him several more times in the back of the head. He pushed Bully away and tried to escape again and failed because he was half senseless from the blows. Bully got a hold of him again, 10+ other kids surround them to cheer on the Bully. Kid is trapped fighting Bully in the middle of a hostile mob.

Stop with the bullshit "Kids will be kids" angle. As I said before, thats half the god damn problem with these situations. No one has the right to do any of this shit to someone else just because its kids that are involved.

This is news to me. Nowhere have I seen any evidence that'd point to this.

Maybe you should reread the entire thread. You're obviously missing a number of things.

[Greenday]

Maybe you should stop feeling the situation and actually analyze it. You guys are letting your feelings get in the way of figuring out the situation.

I said he didn't make any attempt to get away from the situation. Which he didn't. Getting off the bus at a different stop doesn't qualify as avoiding the fight in the first place.

I'm not arguing that he was perfectly safe. I'm arguing that I know you can be beat to death. My friend's brother's situation was a life or death fight. This kid's situation wasn't until he decided to bring a knife to school and stab someone that day.

Adrenaline is what kept him going. But when someone is stabbing you, you are fighting for your life. If it weren't for adrenaline, he wouldn't have even been able to fight for his life.

Clearly you don't understand the prerequisites for a school fight. The location is of no importance to it. It's about who and why and how. This wasn't outside some bar involving someone drunk with the intent of killing someone else. This was about just beating someone up. And before someone decides to be a smartass and say something along the lines of "assault is assault", no duh. I didn't say it wasn't assault, did I?

This thread just reads like a bunch of people who are pissed that this kid got to do what they've always secretly wanted to do to the people who bullied them and never got over it instead of just learning from what happened in their childhood and continue on into adulthood.

[Gravekeeper]

Maybe you should stop feeling the situation and actually analyze it. You guys are letting your feelings get in the way of figuring out the situation.

Maybe you should take your own advice, seeing as I'm referencing the court documents directly. While you are making up aspects of the fight.

I said he didn't make any attempt to get away from the situation. Which he didn't. Getting off the bus at a different stop doesn't qualify as avoiding the fight in the first place.

Yes it does. The prosecution even agreed that Bully was the aggressor and Kid tried to avoid the fight. The whole court agreed on this. You're the only one disagreeing. He was threatened repeatedly that they would come after him at X stop despite him telling them several times no, no, no, no he did not want to fight anyone and just leave him alone. So he gets off at Y stop to try and avoid them. They follow him, he tries to run away three times total. But can't escape.

The State and the Defense agreed on this.

I'm not arguing that he was perfectly safe. I'm arguing that I know you can be beat to death. My friend's brother's situation was a life or death fight. This kid's situation wasn't until he decided to bring a knife to school and stab someone that day.

You just said this person died from a blow to the back of the head. The kid was struck in the back of the head several times. The first being a sucker punch. He was knocked half senseless. Per the court documents. So how does it not count? Because they're younger? A high school wrestler with Jiu Jitsu training can't muster sufficient force to inflict damage? Bullshit.

Adrenaline is what kept him going. But when someone is stabbing you, you are fighting for your life. If it weren't for adrenaline, he wouldn't have even been able to fight for his life.

He was not fighting for his life. Again, I'm referencing court documents. You're making up shit in your head about it then accusing us of being the ones going on feelings. There were 10+ witnesses including an independent adult witness who testified that upon seeing the fight she was "Concerned someone would suffer serious bodily harm" and that was before the knife came out.

He pulled the knife after several blows to the back of the head which knocked him senseless. That was the point he became afraid for his life as he thought he was going to lose conciousness. He was disoriented, could no longer run and was afraid that Bully's friends were going to jump in on the asskicking too and all beat him to death.

Even without Florida's Stand Your Ground law he would not be charged. Stand Your Ground elimates the duty to retreat from a harmful situation. But seeing as Kid attempted to retreat multiple times, Stand Your Ground is a moot point. As he did fullfill his duty to retreat. Several times. But failed to get away.

[Mytical]

Whoa, right there Greenday. People who secretly want to do something to the people who bullied them? So somebody like me, who feels terrible when they hurt insects, wants to secretly kill the bullies that used to pick on me? O...k then. Good to know that. Glad somebody knows my mind better then me /

[Greenday]

Whoa, right there Greenday. People who secretly want to do something to the people who bullied them? So somebody like me, who feels terrible when they hurt insects, wants to secretly kill the bullies that used to pick on me? O...k then. Good to know that. Glad somebody knows my mind better then me /

We've had multiple people post about how they could have or would have done it given the opportunity back then.