Another bullying related death, this time the victim is all right.

[AdminAssistant]

I do not understand why a weapon possesion charge is being called for, over a *pocket knife*.

Because it's illegal, that's why. Because a knife is a weapon. And it's not a "oops, I forgot to clean out my pockets" situation. He deliberately brought a weapon to school with the intent of using the damn thing. And the kid needs to be punished before every other bullied child in this country gets the same idea.

[Evandril]

Because it's illegal, that's why. Because a knife is a weapon. And it's not a "oops, I forgot to clean out my pockets" situation. He deliberately brought a weapon to school with the intent of using the damn thing. And the kid needs to be punished before every other bullied child in this country gets the same idea.

So carrying a pocket knife on a bus, NOT on school property, is illegal? He was not anyplace where a pocket knife would be restricted, he had not yet gotten to school...So should he serve jail time for something he might have done, if not stopped? Hell, I've had a knife taken away from me at an airport, and didn't even get a ticket...Should I notify someone that a gross injustice happened? Bit more serious to take a weapon on a plane than into a school.

From the way he first waved it around, and then only used it when attacked...You'd be hard pressed to prove to me he meant to use it...Read my comment on that part, please.

[DrFaroohk]

Seems to me that if the school doesn't want weapons on campus, then they are responsible for maintaining an environment where weapons are not necessary.

Any situation where you are being assaulted by 5 people requires the use of a weapon to survive.

[AdminAssistant]

So carrying a pocket knife on a bus, NOT on school property, is illegal? He was not anyplace where a pocket knife would be restricted, he had not yet gotten to school

The article stated that the incident happened in the afternoon. Which means the kid had the knife on school property. They've expelled kids for less.

[Kheldarson]

That's a school thing then, not a law enforcement thing. Honestly, a pocket knife, while it can be used as a deadly weapon, is not generally carried for the purpose of being a deadly weapon. Heck, I've got two and I'll carry them if I know I'm going to be working in the shed or whatever to, you know, cut things. So law enforcement's not going to arrest a kid for carrying a pocket knife, even to school. A school can suspend or expel him for such, that's their right in order to maintain a safe environment, but not arrest him.

[Panacea]

Donald is a less-common type of bully. He's the guy next door that everybody would say was "such a nice, quiet boy" when he's hauled in for some heinous murder.

Most bullies are not that smart, and they're not doing it to hurt others as much as they are to make themselves seem tougher/more cool to their group of friends, making secrecy counter-productive.

^-.-^

I would posit that Donald is actually the more common sort of bully, for the very reason that his type is charming and able to fool the non-victims into thinking he's an OK guy . . . only the victims know better.

Most of the kids who bullied me were in fact very smart.

[Duelist925]

Because it's illegal, that's why. Because a knife is a weapon. And it's not a "oops, I forgot to clean out my pockets" situation. He deliberately brought a weapon to school with the intent of using the damn thing. And the kid needs to be punished before every other bullied child in this country gets the same idea.

Under florida law, a pocket knife is not considered a deadly weapon.

Here

Specifically "(13) "Weapon" means any dirk, metallic knuckles, slungshot, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon except a firearm or a common pocketknife. "

Therefore, there can be no weapons charge on the knife.

If the school wants to punish him about that, thats not a legal matter,its a matter between school and kid.

And quite frankly, I HOPE that if a small kid is surrounded by five bullies about to kick his ass, that'll he'll protect himself. I don't particularly advocate killing, but I do advocate self defense, especially when ones life or health is in danger, and there are no other options. If said self defense ends in the death of the aggressor, then so be it.

I'm not saying every bullied kid needs to pull a knife on the bully. I am saying that if said bullied kid has at least one other person attacking them, and, as in this case, that aggressor has a posse of friends who will surely help, then I have little problem with them acting in self defense. Once that many people are involved? There IS NO going for help. Think the bully or his friends are going to let his toy escape? There is no calling for help--by the time it arrives, at best the beating will have been cut short by a few minutes, at worse, the bullies take some time to pound extra hard for narking on them. And even if help is able to come in time, BOTH parties are as likely to be punished, under many schools fucking stupid zero tolerance laws.

This kid did everything he could, and he had NO other options at this point. He'd already been shown that adults were useless, especially police, as they forced him back into a situation he was terrified of. So him pulling a knife, and this bully dieing, while sad, and COMPLETELY PREVENTABLE had one single damn adult done their fucking job correctly, is not his fault. It's a situation he was forced into. Not one he chose.

[MadMike]

What I have to say is not going to be popular among the "The victim had no right to defend himself" crowd: I have no sympathy for the bully at all. None. Zero. Zip. I've been where the victim is, and I know what it's like to be afraid every day, and just wanting it all to stop. I was small for my age up until 13 or so, which made me an easy target. When it was happening to me, the adults were no help, and I see that sadly, very little has changed.

"Just ignore them! They'll go away!" No, they'll keep doing it.

"Just walk away!" They'll follow you.

Even my own parents were no help, at least not at first. My dad refused to believe that people would pick on someone without provocation, and insisted that I must have "mouthed off" to the other kids. Thankfully, one day he witnessed what was going on firsthand, and taught me how to fight back. I shudder to think of what might have happened if he hadn't, as it would have been easy for me to get a hold of a gun. I was small, but fast ,and a lot stronger than I looked. I took down other kids who were twice my size.

I remember the one time well. The other kid -- who was two years older than me -- started harassing and threatening me in the hallway, and I just snapped. Before I knew what I was doing, I had grabbed a hold of him and slammed him into the lockers. I remember looking into his eyes while he was pinned with his back to the lockers, with a look of sheer panic on his face. I started laughing hysterically. A teacher came along and broke it up, and I let go of him and we each walked away. Interestingly enough, a few years later he and I became best friends.

I did get to see karma in action with one other bully. I didn't have to deal with him in school -- I was in middle school and he was in high school -- but I had to ride the bus with him. He had to sit up front because of all the trouble he had caused, and I thought I would be safe by simply not sitting near him. Not so. He started throwing things at me with alarming precision. And the idiot bus driver did nothing about it, despite being right there in front of the kid. Well, the one day he threw something and just missed me. It sailed right past my head, and hit this much bigger, heavy-set but strong kid, right in the eye. He yelled back at the bully, "Did you throw that?" He answered back, "Yeah but I meant to hit him! (me)" He yelled back, "Well I'm gonna mean to hit you!"

The rest of the ride was quite amusing from where I sat. The bully sat there fidgeting nervously, and when the driver stopped and opened the door, the bully bolted from his seat and took off like a shot out the door. Better yet, the former bully from the previous story -- the one I later became friends with -- told me what happened afterwards. The big guy went to the bully's homeroom and calmly told him, "Now I wouldn't mind that you hit me", and then yelled, "BUT YOU HIT ME IN THE EYE!" and proceeded to beat the crap out of him. I don't think I had any more problems after that.

These were just two of many incidents that occurred when I was little. I felt like I was constantly walking on eggshells, with other kids waiting for me to say or do something they considered stupid so they could jump on me for it. I had no self-confidence at all. Around age 13 or so, I hit a growth spurt and caught up to everyone else, and it stopped for the most part. But the damage was done. The ordeal left me distrustful and resentful, and I started taking it out on others, people who had done nothing to me. I guess deep down, I figured if I hurt them first, they wouldn't be able to hurt me. It took me years to figure out just what was going on and why I was doing it, but I was able to stop. Even now, 30+ years later, some of the effects still remain, which were aggravated by the whole mess with my ex. I finally have some self-confidence, and most people who meet me seem to like me a lot. I've come a long way, but I still have a ways to go. I still find myself distrustful of people, and sometimes uneasy around people I don't know.

[Seifer]

I'm sorry for the bully's family (YES, HE WAS A BULLY. That family needs to pull their heads out of their collective asses and accept that), but he put himself in that position. If you constantly harass someone, there may come a time when they eventually snap.

I can easily see the situation in my head: Bully hits victim in the back of the head to start a fight. Victim is now surrounded by the bully and spectators (what kids don't stop to watch a fight?) and feels trapped and in mortal danger. He has been carrying a knife just in case of this very situation, and loses his senses long enough to stab his attacker 12 times.

It was self-defense, even if he "went overboard" as some people are claiming. I doubt the victim planned on actually having to use his knife, and merely kept it on him to feel safer. It's not like the victim went out of his way to get into a fight, knowing he had the upper hand (i.e. a weapon). He tried to avoid it but couldn't.

This was a tragedy, but NOT a murder.

[protege]

"Just ignore them! They'll go away!" No, they'll keep doing it.

"Just walk away!" They'll follow you.

Unfortunately, nothing has changed. All too often, people believe that it's not a problem, and if they do nothing...it'll go away. That's not how it works. Bullies only understand one thing--might makes right. They will keep pushing people around, until someone decides that they're not going to take it any more...and beats the fuck out of them.

We had a couple in my neighborhood when I was younger. For the most part, those pricks left me alone. My brothers (and their friends) weren't always so lucky. Some assholes from the high school decided it would be fun to rough them up and steal their football, when they were playing in the park. Couldn't really go to the cops, because it was just their word against my brothers. Couldn't really go to the bullies' parents...since we had no idea where they lived. Even if we did, that wouldn't have been much help.

Things changed one night, as my dad was driving us home. As we're coming down our street, my brother started screaming "there's the asshole who roughed me up." Ever see an '87 Tempo lay rubber? We're about 2 feet past them, when my dad pulled the handbrake, whipped the car around, passed them again...and did another handbrake turn...and slammed on the brakes about a foot from the group. He got out of the car, got in the face of the biggest asshole, and said that if he didn't leave his kids alone...he'd fuck the guy up. As he was screaming at the big guy, his buddies took a few steps back. Pussies.

Last I heard, the 'leader' was killed. Seems he attempted to rob someone...and his victim shot his ass. As for the two pussies, I have no idea what happened to them, and I don't care.

I should mention that I took a *lot* of shit from people over the years. That's probably why I keep to myself, and don't exactly trust most people. I don't hold a grudge, but I don't forgive easily. Nor do I forget

[MrsEclipse]

Schools still seem to be pushing this propaganda:

"Being bullied at school? Tell an adult. Everything will be fixed forever immediately, and what's more, there'll be delicious sheet cake!"

I think I mentioned this before, but when I was in school I was literally told that they couldn't do anything to stop the harassment because if they did they wouldn't have time for anything except keeping bullies away from me and punishing them, and thus wouldn't get any teaching done.

Besides, if a kid is being bullied that much, it's gotta be at least partly her fault. Right? (I assume that's what they told themselves to help them sleep at night. The few that hadn't had their souls forcibly removed yet, I mean. That only comes with tenure.)

[Lace Neil Singer]

Oh yes, the "blame the victim" crap. My old headmaster actually told me that if I was more sociable, I wouldn't be bullied so much. Yeah, cuz I really want to socialise with a bunch of rude, spiteful bitches.

[DrFaroohk]

They always have a bunch of handy excuses for why they can't stop the bullying, but it seems none of these apply when punishing the victim. Too busy, didn't see it, not fair, whatever.

It's just sad we've allowed our society to reach this point. It's sad there are people who honestly believe the bully didn't do anything wrong here.

It's a sad world.

[Eisa]

Oh yes, the "blame the victim" crap. My old headmaster actually told me that if I was more sociable, I wouldn't be bullied so much. Yeah, cuz I really want to socialise with a bunch of rude, spiteful bitches.

Same here, basically, I kept getting notes on my report cards that I needed to be more sociable. Yes, I'll get right on that when my entire class hates me.

[RedRoseSpiral]

I had some boys in class make me cry when I was about 12. I was going through my first period and they had been picking on me for awhile. Usually, I didn't let stuff get to me like that, but well first period. There are a whole lot of hormones coursing through my system that hadn't before. The teacher took me outside the classroom and started telling me I had brought their taunts onto myself because I was sociable enough. Luckily for me, the CWC (class with in a class) teach for our room heard him and ripped him a new one.

Funny thing, after that, those boys were a sweet as pie to me after that. Still talk to one of them every once in awhile. They learned a lesson, and not from our teacher.