Why Is It Always Bad Cop?

[Gravekeeper]

Seriously? I'm trying to remember the last time I heard a police officer get praised for anything by the media or their community. No matter how they do their job, good or bad, they get blamed or completely crucified in the media. Now there's certainly some dick cops out there. But seriously, can we give ourselves a collective shake here?


I mean look at this.

It's pratically textbook:

Kid takes a realistic bullet gun, removes the orange tip that indentifies as such, then takes it school with him. Walks into the classroom, randomly punchs a classmate in the face. Pulls out the gun and maruaders around the halls. Teacher's try to talk him down. He doesn't listen. He parks himself and waits for the cops. Cops arrive. He turns the gun on them, refuses to put it down. Cops shoot him twice. Center of mass. As they're trained to do to stop a threat.

Now its "excessive force" and everyone wants to know why the police didn't use a tazer or a beanbag gun or something? What? You can be damn sure the whole department would have been crucified had they tried to taze this kid and he killed a cop or a classmate(s) as a result.

I'm honestly surprised there's anyone left that will even take the job of a police officer. Especially in the US. Or maybe that's the problem. Potential good cops are going "Oh fark that" leaving the job to just the power trip dicks. -.-

[SkullKing]

Many people tend to pick the side of the weakest.

The cops are trained and armed, so that makes them stronger on most situations.

But yes, it is totally unfair.

[Greenday]

Cause fuck the police. They are the man and everything they do is wrong!

Doesn't matter if what they do is justified, they are dicks to many people. Even if they DID tazer him or use a beanbag gun, whiny people would still complain that it was excessive force.

[Shangri-laschild]

I hate the misconception that officers should shoot to wound. It's a trickier shot and if they are shooting it's because (so long as they are doing their job right) lives are in danger. I get wanting to be able to resolve things without having to shoot someone and that's a reasonable desire but why should the dangerous person's well being be put above the well being of the possible victims around. Honestly in the link, I'm having trouble seeing how the kid was intending anything other than death by cop with this thing. Maybe not his full original intent, but I can't figure where else he was going with this. The fact that it wasn't a real gun isn't relevant given that it appeared to be one.

We had to big deal with a police incident locally a couple of months back. The local police pulled over a guy who fled from them and had to tackle him to arrest him. While trying to escape, the guy (suspect) jumped from a moving vehicle which ran into a house. He then tried to claim that the police were chasing him for no reason, ran his car into a house and basically beat the crap after his despite him being peaceful and not resisting in the slightest. Someone in the city (dunno what his job is, just that he had the authority to do this) stalled on putting out the video from the police car for a bit while locals got all up in arms about the horrible police. Then the video comes out but by then, quite a few people have already made up their minds. Everything is on camera except for the arrest. You can hear all of that though and it's pretty clear there is nothing excessive in the slightest. It was revealed later that the kid's dad had told him before to never stop for the police at all.

It irritates me too when cops are not given credit for how well things are handled. For some reason it seems a common thing to yell about the bad and ignore the good or at least not bother bringing any attention to it.

[lordlundar]

I actually saw this on another forum I visit and the discussion was really heating up (aka getting stupid). Put simply:

Why not a taser? Because if it is effective (aka not stopped by heavy/loose clothing or the suspect does not resist it's effect as has happened before) it causes all the muscles in the body to contract INCLUDING the hand. Guess what that means...

Why not pepper spray? It causes someone to crumple and instinct says to squeeze the hand. Once again he's holding a gun...

Why not rubber ammo/bean bag guns? This one is the most amusing on the forums as there's some lunatic saying that that type of ammunition should be the ONLY thing LEO's should have because they "can stop a suspect just as well as lethal ammunition." Umm, no. There have been documented evidence of suspects (even those not under the influence of illegal drugs) shrugging it off and continuing. That's why they're used in riot control as a show of force against a large mob mentality without the lethal ramifications. This was a case of a suspect carrying a loaded weapon and was reported as declaring his intent to use it. Officers do not take that sort of chance by using riot control weapons.

The big one: "He was a teenager with a pellet gun!" As far as the police were concerned, he was a suspect with a lethal weapon and intent to kill. Age is irrelevant and they did not know it was a pellet gun until after the fact. Rule one with ANY firearm use: "Treat every weapon as loaded, armed and ready to kill." The only way they could have known it was a pellet gun was if they found out before hand and they did not have that info.

"Why were 3 rounds fired? That's too much!" I actually feel it was good that ONLY 3 rounds were fired total. I would not have been surprised if the report had said three rounds EACH. And you know what? When you have a suspect with a loaded weapon who refuses to comply, you stop him from firing that weapon period. They did so.

"They could have only fired once/shot to wound/given a warning shot/etc." Stop using movie/TV/game logic. The real world does not work that way. Guns are made to kill and are very effective at it. Extremity shots are tough to pull off and can be just as lethal, shots away from the target have been known to kill (even shots in the air have been lethal), and Officers needed to stop him outright. If you think that any of those alternatives is less risky, then I really want to live in your fantasy world.

Point simply, the police did nothing wrong and should be commended for stopping a potentially dangerous situation from getting out of hand. For all we know, that little shit could have been using the pellet gun as a trial run for a real school shooting.

[bara]

I agree with the cops on this.
Now, if they had tried a nonlethal means of stopping him and he had a real gun and shot a classroom of kids... then Id be pissed.

[Rapscallion]

Pretty good article here.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...e-1477749.html

More information shortly after a shooting near me, though it's only near now because I moved into the area. Within five hundred yards of it.

That was the best part of two decades past and I moved here less than five years ago, but it's a very goo dlook at the position of the officers in action over here, and I suspect it's very similar over there. Please note that it was written in 1993.

Rapscallion

[Gravekeeper]

Umm, no. There have been documented evidence of suspects (even those not under the influence of illegal drugs) shrugging it off and continuing.

I distinctly recall an incident on the news from some cop that pulled over some ex boxer or something. Guy was built like a brick shithouse and he just went after the cop. Nothing to cop did slowed the guy down. The cop even managed to shoot him and he still kept wailing on the cop. It was on RealTV or something I think? Google must know.....ah, yes it does.

I've seen similar stories with guys on PCP. Nothing the cop does even slows them down.

[Ree]

Then you get the news stories of police who use a taser and/or pepper spray, and due to unfortunate circumstances, the person dies.

Or, the person is mentally ill and all kinds of criticism gets heaped on the police.

I'm sorry, but when an officer arrives on a scene and has to react, the mentally ill person doesn't exactly have a label on their shirt saying, "I am mentally challeneged/autistic/schizophrenic (or whatever)."

Yes, it's true that, in some cases, that fact has been given to the police ahead of time, but in a struggle, the police are going to do what they can to subdue the person, especially if they feel they are a danger to themselves or the community, or even to the police officers.

I have met some real dick cops with a god complex, but I have also met many more really great police officers.

I still recall when my daughter was small and had her accident. The police officer who was first on the scene made a special trip back to the hospital to bring her a teddy bear all dressed up in a copy of that department's police uniform. (It was something that department did for young children in a crisis.)

I recall a story on CS just a few weeks ago about police officers who take the underprivileged children shopping before Christmas.

The police in our area sponsor Angel trees where people can buy Christmas gifts for needy children in the community.

Actually, it's not just at Christmas that many police departments get involved in charitable community activities.

The problem is, none of that gets attention called to it.
It's always the negative that gets the focus.

[Panacea]

I can understand the grief of the family who are trying to make sense of their loss.

But the police acted appropriately.

I can't help but wonder if this wasn't suicide by cop.

[Rageaholic]

Just like the bully thread, there is only so much you can do when someone is threatening your well being. This kid had a gun. It wasn't a real gun, but the cops didn't know that. It sucks that he was killed, but he didn't leave the cops much of an option.

EDIT: I'm also wondering, what would have happened if the cops didn't shoot and he managed to get away or worse, kill someone else. The cops probably would have been criticized for not preventing it. It's really a no win situation.

[protege]

"They could have only fired once/shot to wound/given a warning shot/etc." Stop using movie/TV/game logic. The real world does not work that way. Guns are made to kill and are very effective at it. Extremity shots are tough to pull off and can be just as lethal, shots away from the target have been known to kill (even shots in the air have been lethal), and Officers needed to stop him outright. If you think that any of those alternatives is less risky, then I really want to live in your fantasy world.

Exactly. The real world is very different from the scenes depicted in Grand Theft Auto and other video games. For one, the programs are heavily scripted, and take some *serious* liberties with things. Unfortunately, quite a few people think "hey, I've played GTA therefore I know how to steal vehicles, and evade the cops. I'm a fucking firearms master..." Then they try it, and find out that things don't work that way.

For example, take the guy who was being an asshole at the local gas station/eatery just over the hill from me. Rhymes with "Peetz." Anyway, this guy was being a dick, and was refusing to leave. So they called the cops, and things went downhill. Seems the guy was asked to leave, got busted for trespassing, and as the cuffs were being put on, he tried to force his way out (similar to what you can do in GTA4)...and went for the officer's gun She drew, and shot him. She didn't kill him, but it was enough to drop him. Unfortunate, but the guy was on something--either meth or PCP--and the tazer her partner deployed, didn't work. Pepper spray wouldn't have done it either--had it been used, the cop would have been on the receiving end of it. The gunshot was a last resort.

The incident made the local papers, and yes, people did bitch about it. They chose to ignore the fact that the guy was high, and attempted to possibly kill an officer. She did what she had to, to stop him. If she hadn't...he could have easily escaped, and possibly attacked someone else. Guess who would have been blamed for that?

When those stories came out, there was an investigation...and the cop was found to be not at fault. Unlike what the media would have you believe, most cops do *not* want to shoot someone...no matter what offense the perp may have committed. They'd rather bring in someone alive...than send them to the morgue.

[draggar]

I can't help but wonder if this wasn't suicide by cop.

We have a winner!!

That's my vote - clearly the kid knew what he was doing - the cops acted exactly as they should have.

People love to look back and complain with all the

BUT the gun wasn't loaded!
BUT it was a toy gun that looked real!
BUT it was a pellet gun!
BUT the gun wasn't working

BUT I'm willing to bet 99% of the complainers would have done the same thing in their shoes, despite their "BUTs".

[Andara Bledin]

Unlike what the media would have you believe, most cops do *not* want to shoot someone...no matter what offense the perp may have committed. They'd rather bring in someone alive...than send them to the morgue.

And even in the case of a cop who was also a sociopath, the paperwork and evaluations you have to undergo after discharging your weapon make it a particularly unattractive option.

^-.-^

[MadMike]

I'm not a huge fan of the police myself, but in this case, I'd say the shooting was justified.

Something similar happened in my area a few years back. Some former mental patient went off his meds and lost it. He was wandering around an apartment building naked, and threatening people with a knife. When the cops came to handle the situation, he charged at one of the cops with the knife. The cop shot and killed the guy.

Some people were outraged that the cop shot the guy, saying things like, "It wasn't his fault. He was sick. He didn't know what he was doing." Sick or not, when your life is in danger, you do what you have to do.