Couple Finally Reveals Their Child's Gender...Five Years After Birth(!!)

[siead_lietrathua]

it says for the examples of hypermasculine that they dont let him have things like camo or skulls. i met a person at work that didnt let her kid wear anything with skulls because of the death-emphasis associated with them.
it also says in the article that barbies are banned, which for that age level would be a hyper-female thing. controversy about playing with barbie has been around since I was a kid, because it creates unrealistic expectations or some phsycobabbleshit.
"Sasha's also not short on dolls, though Barbie is also off limits. "She's banned because she's horrible," Laxton says in the Cambridge interview. "
also to the pink swimsuit, the article has
" "Children like sparkly things," says Beck. "And if someone thought Sasha was a girl because he was wearing a pink swimming costume, then what effect would that have? " "
if they wanted a totally gender neutral kid they would have banned the swimsuit. the kid wanted to wear it so he could. i think the non-allowance of camo or skulls may be because of military and death associations.
the words hypermacsuline isnt in quotes so its not likely from the parents. it was probably used by the author to make it seem like controversy to spark conversation and more website hits/revenue. after all, it started a thread here, so it worked

[Lace Neil Singer]

A lot of my clothes have skulls on them cuz I happen to like skulls. Would a hot pink top with a black cartoon skull count as masculine, just cuz it has a skull on it? Women have skulls too, as well as men. XD

[Ree]

Did they really have to go to that extreme?

I raised one biological daughter.

She was definitely Daddy's girl, and as a result, when she was little, if one were to look in her toybox or closet, they would have thought we had 2 children, a boy and a girl, based on what was there.

Her wardrobe had jeans and T-shirts or plain old shirts along with frilly lace dresses and blouses, and pastel coloured skirts or feminine cut pants. She had prissy little "girly" shoes as well as sturdy boots and running shoes.

She had baby dolls and Barbies, lots of stuffed animals, and a kitchen set that she played with, but she also had toy cars and trucks, an assortment of "just like Daddy" little helper tool sets and a Tonka construction helmet. There were building blocks, baseball equipment, a football, basketball and even hockey equipment.

We let her choose how she wanted to dress on that day, and we let her decide which toys suited her.
Quite often, she would choose to wear the prissy outfits with the lace and ribbons, and I would find her sitting in a mud puddle playing with the cars and trucks. Later on the same day, she would be cuddling her baby doll and playing "Mommy".

She was told from a young age that she could be whatever she wanted to be, and her gender shouldn't ever stop her.

To me, that's much more of a positive message than hiding her gender from her and the rest of the world and pretending that gender doesn't exist, or possibly making her ashamed of her gender.

I find it interesting that in the cases I have read about, it seems to be a male child involved in this social experiment.
Have any families done this denial of gender with female children?

In the case of the couple in Toronto, Ontario, it's still too early to know if the child is male or female as they still haven't revealed "Storm's" gender.

If they really want to make a statement that gender doesn't matter, then why hide the gender?
Just admit the child is male or female and do your own work of steering the child away from stereotypes.

Raise the child with a healthy respect for both genders and teach him or her that they are not bound by society's view of boy and girl specific roles or preferences.

Pink and blue are just colours.

[AdminAssistant]

I agree. There's no reason to hide the fact that he's a boy, and no reason not to let him wear 'boy' clothes if that's what he wants. It's no shame to be male, and it's no shame to be female. You can fight the fact that gender is a social construct, but there's no denying the biological reality.

If their problem was that other people would buy stereotypically 'boy' things for their child as gifts, well, then I'm sure they could take those things to Goodwill where they would be very much appreciated.

[jackfaire]

I find it interesting that in the cases I have read about, it seems to be a male child involved in this social experiment.
Have any families done this denial of gender with female children?

My theory is that it's a backlash against the attitude that "Girls can do anything boys can do but Boys can't do anything girls can do"

In my area at least Girls are typically encouraged to explore every aspect of life and not very often told "But that's a guy thing" while boys are often told, "But that's a girl thing"

It seems to be a holdover bit of sexism that says being a girl isn't as good as being a guy and what you end up with is Women that are well rounded individuals and Men who still act like they are 12 because advancing maturity or emotional coping skills past that age would mean, "Acting like a girl"

[KabeRinnaul]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure that one out. He's allowed to dress in skirts, girl's swimsuits and tu-tus or as the spitting image of, well, Prince. But anything in the other direction is "hyper masculine"? That's not gender neutral at all.

I'm betting they believe gender is wholly a social construct, and that gender-neutrality is the natural state, so they're trying to ensure that the child remains gender-neutral by discouraging things that would tip the scales too far towards "male".

[Gravekeeper]

I'm betting they believe gender is wholly a social construct, and that gender-neutrality is the natural state, so they're trying to ensure that the child remains gender-neutral by discouraging things that would tip the scales too far towards "male".

But at the same time are letting him swing into hyper-feminine and already essentially making gender desicions for him. This whole idea just seems idiotic. You don't experiment on your child. >.>

[BrenDAnn]

Thank you, GK. Bottom line is children =/= social experiments. Period. Ree, the way you described raising your daughter is the way I'd do it, if I were a parent. I completely agree with everything you said!

[Panacea]

(I would still love to have clarification on just what "hyper-masculine" means, because cargo pants and a skull on a shirt seems like very silly criteria, since I know a few girls who love skulls and camo and that type of thing.)

Yeah, I'd love to know what "hyper-masculine" means as well. I have no idea.

And I was that girl who would have loved skulls and camo. I actually dressed very girly and was quite happy to until I got to be around six or seven. Then I realized that recess in the winter in a dress was not very comfortable even with panty hose, and started insisting on pants.

I was like your kid, Ree: I'd be in the yard in my dresses playing with trucks in the mud. I had a bright orange Tonka Truck . . . back when they made them out of solid steel. Loved that thing.

Yeah, I'm trying to figure that one out. He's allowed to dress in skirts, girl's swimsuits and tu-tus or as the spitting image of, well, Prince. But anything in the other direction is "hyper masculine"? That's not gender neutral at all. Plus she said she's trying to avoid stereotyping but has just tossed him out there onto the internet. She just typecast him for anyone that ever Googles him for the rest of his life.

If he ( honestly I fear inevitably at this rate ) gets bullied, he's going to blame his parents down the line. You don't perform social experiments on your kids >.>

I really question whether what they are doing isn't a form of child abuse. It's like they really wanted a girl, not a boy.

I find it interesting that in the cases I have read about, it seems to be a male child involved in this social experiment.
Have any families done this denial of gender with female children?

Pink and blue are just colours.

Yes, and in Victorian times pink was a MANLY color, as it was a variation of red, which denoted violence.

My father loved pink. It was his favorite color. He painted my old bedroom pink after I moved out to remind himself it used to be my room I guess (I usually had it painted sky blue when I was a kid). Mom was horrified; it was pretty garish looking.

I think the reason no one's tried this with females is that it is not so socially unacceptable any more for girls to display "male" traits, like preferring certain kinds of clothing, toys, movies, and the like. We see it in society all the time; women commonly wear pants even in professional dress and no one questions their sexuality.

It's only when a woman displays male patterns of behavior (walks, talks, and acts like a guy as well as dressing like one) that people look askance.

[Andara Bledin]

I've not done a particularly exhaustive search, but so far, every article I've found that uses the phrase "hyper-masculine" refers back to the Yahoo article. That leads me to believe it actually was the author that came up with it, and not the parents, who've given quite a number of articles. Plus, as mentioned, the Barbie comment is a quote, and the comment under inspection notably is not.

^-.-^

[Beckpatton]

What a pair of hypocrites! They want their son to be raised in a gender neutral environment, but feminine clothes are ok?

Sounds more like they are hoping for a feminine son/daughter they never had than an open minded child.

It's great to promote openmindedness, and telling your child they can be whatever they want, wear whatever they want, play with whatever they want will encourage that.

How can they say we don't want our son to be labelled, be forced to do boy things, wear boy things, but it's ok to do and wear girl things?

Woudn't allowing them to wear boy/girl clothing essentially create a neutral environment? By not placing ideas and labels on certain things, they are effectively making them neutral.

You can't have one and not the other, without implying something about the one you are exluding.

I have no idea if any of the above is making sense, it's a bit of brain spew so I apologise if I seem ranty!

[fireheart17]

I really question whether what they are doing isn't a form of child abuse. It's like they really wanted a girl, not a boy.

Even though I do not study psych, I would have to agree with you. Heck, even the other gender-neutral baby out there is at least wearing gender-neutral clothing.

The poor kid is going to end up needing some therapy further down the road.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Just a little reminder, tho an extreme one:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/s...s/tick/3b.html

Charles Manson's prostitute mother Kathy Maddox, indifferently declared his name as "No Name Maddox" for his birth certificate. She hoisted him off on relatives, and in one story, famous but probably untrue, she traded the infant Charlie for a pitcher of beer. When he was sent to live with his aunt, his uncle told him he was a sissy, and punished him by sending him to school dressed as a girl.

Henry Lee Lucas also suffered gender confusion as a child, courtesy of his mother's sadism. She was a heavy drinker and bootlegger. For unknown reasons she dressed him as a girl until he was 7. "I lived as a girl. I was dressed as a girl. I had long hair as a girl. I wore girl's clothes." She senselessly beat him after he had his hair cut because his teacher complained.

I should think that even if this extreme example doesn't come true, the boy is going to be damaged in some way by being the experiment of his deranged parents.

[Andara Bledin]

I should think that even if this extreme example doesn't come true, the boy is going to be damaged in some way by being the experiment of his deranged parents.

Except that those examples have massive differences that make them more unlike than like the situation in the OP.

In the first, the rampant misogyny involved likens dressing the child as a girl to being sub-human. It would be more akin to the parents in the OP forcing their child to act like a dog.

In the second, the mother apparently forced the boy to act as though he were a girl. He was given no choices, nor does it appear from the brief quote that even he was aware that he wasn't a girl.

Both are such a far cry from the OP's situation as to be almost entirely irrelevant.

The child in the OP knows, and has for as long as it's normal for a child to know such things. Wearing girly or boyish things is neither punishment nor reward; it's simply one of the many choice he has as a young child. Finally, the outside world has never been deceived as to whether he's a boy or a girl. They were simply not told and left to make their own assumptions or not.

^-.-^

[Lace Neil Singer]

Um, I already said they were different situations. You're putting way too much thought into this.

Also, a small child is going to wonder why he's being pushed into wearing girly clothes and actively discouraged from wearing boy's clothes. Are they going to punish him if they catch him wearing a friend's baseball cap, for example?