Couple Finally Reveals Their Child's Gender...Five Years After Birth(!!)

[Andara Bledin]

Nowhere does it say the child was "pushed" into wearing girly clothing nor prevented from wearing "boyish" clothing. A single author used the term "hyper-masculine" in her article. Nobody who isn't referencing her writing uses that term at all that I could find. The only reference the parents make to restrictions is against Barbie, and skull logos. And possibly cargo pants, though, again, every story that mentions cargo pants references the Yahoo article, while none of those I found that don't reference that one mention cargo pants at all.

As most of the arguments center around statements that aren't corroborated anywhere else, I am not taking the bait.

^-.-^

[BlaqueKatt]

As most of the arguments center around statements that aren't corroborated anywhere else, I am not taking the bait.

^-.-^

I wonder what the background of the different article writers is...my bias sense is tingling.....

[Gravekeeper]

Here's some further thought on the subject of gender stereotypes in relation to this story.

To paraphrase, even in monkeys, boys perfer "masculine" toys, while girls oddly enough don't actually have a clear preference and will play with both equally. A rather curious monkey mirroring of it being more frowned upon for a boy to have Barbies then a girl to have Tonka trucks.

[Seifer]

Wait, why would they name the child "Sasha" if they wanted him to be gender neutral? Sasha isn't a gender neutral name (Or maybe it is in the UK? It's a feminine name here in the US). Why not "Jessie" or "Casey"? Those are gender neutral, and he won't be made fun of later on for having those names. "Sasha", on the other hand....man, I hope he's home-schooled from the ages of 6-18. Middle and High School are going to be BRUTAL.

Why are skull shirts and cargo pants out of the question? What if he likes watching pirate movies or thinks army men are cool? If you want to allow him to explore and try whatever he likes, then don't limit him at all. You honestly don't have to - young children will explore on their own without prompting.

Example: My college professor taught a kindergarten class. She had a little boy who enjoyed dressing up like a princess whenever he played dress-up. His father saw him one day and flipped out, but my professor explained to him that children will try different things as they grow, and the boy wasn't thinking about the situation as acting "gay" or "straight." He was just being himself. The child eventually moved on to other activities, as kids are want to do.

While there are gender stereotypes, kids will explore whatever interests them in their younger years. It's their nature to be curious about anything and everything around them.

[Andara Bledin]

Sasha is an either/or name, originating as a diminutive (pet name) of Alexander or Alexandra. Sasha being feminine is a rather America-centric view, with it being primarily a name for boys in Europe - Germany, for example, allows the name Sascha only for boys, not girls. Since the family lives in the UK, it's kind of silly to use examples from other cultures regarding what is and isn't usual.

As for skull shirts and camo pants, we don't know if either was actually forbidden. There's no direct attribution for those restrictions as there are with Barbie's banning. It's possible, but there's just not enough data to know that either parent really said that, and if they did, then why not actually quote them? I still cannot find any article that does not refer back to the Yahoo article that mentions cargo pants, skull-print shirts, or "hyper-masculine" anything.

I'd really like to see an interview with the couple to hear it from the horse's mouth, as it were.

^-.-^

[Seifer]

Since the family lives in the UK, it's kind of silly to use examples from other cultures regarding what is and isn't usual.

That's kind of why I asked that question in parenthesis. You know, the one about if Sasha is a gender-neutral name in the UK. Since I don't live there, it's something I wouldn't know.

Some of the other articles about Sasha flat-out stated that it's gender-neutral in the UK, but unfortunately those weren't linked in the original post. Now that I've read them, though, I've learned something new.

Now I know, and knowing is half the battle. :rainbow:

As for skull shirts and camo pants, we don't know if either was actually forbidden. There's no direct attribution for those restrictions as there are with Barbie's banning. It's possible, but there's just not enough data to know that either parent really said that, and if they did, then why not actually quote them? I still cannot find any article that does not refer back to the Yahoo article that mentions cargo pants, skull-print shirts, or "hyper-masculine" anything.

People are assuming they were forbidden because the article offers them as an example of forbidden clothing.

Sasha dresses in clothes he likes -- be it a hand-me-downs from his sister or his brother. The big no-no's are hyper-masculine outfits like skull-print shirts and cargo pants.

We're going by what we've read. I don't know why the article chose not to quote the parents to prove that point. For whatever reason, they chose not to. The idea that skull shirts and camo pants could be considered "hyper-masculine" makes some kind of sense, since they're something "only boys" or "tomboys" tend to wear.

As to how there's no other mention of cargo pants being banned, here's an article from the Telegraph that states:

Sasha wears a "ruched-sleeved" girl's shirt as part of his school uniform, and has been banned from sporting combat trousers.

And here's an article from The Sun that says something very similar:

Sasha wears a ruched-sleeved and scalloped-collared shirt to school from the girl's uniform list, and has been banned from sporting combat trousers.

Of course, neither is a direct quote, so who knows?

[Andara Bledin]

To paraphrase, even in monkeys, boys perfer "masculine" toys, while girls oddly enough don't actually have a clear preference and will play with both equally. A rather curious monkey mirroring of it being more frowned upon for a boy to have Barbies then a girl to have Tonka trucks.

This doesn't really surprise me. Most primates tend to have the females be the nurturers, so they would be much more likely to have contact with "plush" toys, while males, who are typically less likely to engage in physical contact would be less likely to have an interest in plush toys that are for the purpose of physical contact.

The thing is that such instinctual reactions are very primitive, and the idea that we don't have to be ruled by our base instincts is at play, now. We, as an advanced civilization compared to our ancestors no longer need to train our men to be the heavy lifters and our women to be the nurturers, and as such, the types of toys and marketing we sell to our young no longer needs to reflect outmoded concepts.

And here's an article from The Sun that says something very similar:

Sasha wears a ruched-sleeved and scalloped-collared shirt to school from the girl's uniform list, and has been banned from sporting combat trousers.

I can't actually access that site, so thanks for including the relevant line.

"Combat trousers" is an interesting term; it hadn't caught my attention before, and I wasn't aware that it was a variant term for cargo pants.

I wonder if they mean it to apply to all forms of cargo pants or just to those that have camo, since that's one of the other items that's mentioned fairly consistently in articles about what he's not allowed to choose to wear.

Anyway, here's an article from last Tuesday from The Star that goes into further detail with the mother on what she was doing and why.

In it, she explains that in as much as it was their intention to allow their son to not be boxed in by outside expectations, it was also an exercise for her to write on her blog using only "non-sexist language" as a matter of greater accessibility to her readers, which is one of her concerns.

She also finds the concept of them having raised Sasha as "gender-neutral" as laughable; she uses the term "gender rich."

^-.-^

[Seifer]

"Combat trousers" is an interesting term; it hadn't caught my attention before, and I wasn't aware that it was a variant term for cargo pants.

I wonder if they mean it to apply to all forms of cargo pants or just to those that have camo, since that's one of the other items that's mentioned fairly consistently in articles about what he's not allowed to choose to wear.

Oh god I'm so confused right now. I can't even remember where 'camouflage' came into this picture, to be honest. I thought I read it in the articles, but they simply list "cargo pants", and don't specify what kind. My head hurts.

"Combat trousers" is a pretty funky way of describing them. I don't know if the family bans all cargo pants or just those that could be equated to G.I. Joe types. (If the family actually bans cargo pants at all - like you said, it's not a direct quote.) If the family does ban camo/cargo pants, I'm guessing it's because they correlate 'combat' to 'camouflage' since many soldier uniforms incorporate some kind of camo pattern.

I don't understand why all cargo pants would be banned, though. Women wear cargo pants all the time (at least here in the US they do). Maybe they're considered 'manly' in Europe? I honestly don't know.

[Lachrymose]

Well, here's one male American Sasha, but I'm not sure of any others.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0593711/

[siead_lietrathua]

i'm still thinking that IF the skulls and military style are banned it is probably because of the voilence and death associations. again, i know people with gender-specified kids that arent allowed to wear that stuff for those reasons.

[fireheart17]

i'm still thinking that IF the skulls and military style are banned it is probably because of the voilence and death associations. again, i know people with gender-specified kids that arent allowed to wear that stuff for those reasons.

I'd be inclined to agree. Especially if the parents are pacifist.

There was an article in one of the trashy womens mags down here that was referring to Shiloh (Angelina Jolies kid) wanting to be more like a boy as she grew up.

[Boozy]

Wait a minute - is he forbidden to wear cargo pants because they are too mascuiline, or because they are an unholy abomination of fashion?

I've seen as many women wearing cargo pants as men. Neither gender looks good in them.