Peanut Butter Sandwiches Banned from Schools

[Mishi]

Aw but Raaaaps, sharing is caring!

^This sentiment is why kids can't have peanut butter in some schools.

[lordlundar]

What you had initially said was that a ban would make sense if a significant number of children had a peanut allergy. But that is dependant on what the parents and teachers think would be considered a significant number. Some people would consider 1 to be to many, and that you're better to be safe than sorry.

I understood that you were against a ban over one child being affected, but would agree if there was a significant number of children affected. The grey area was to what number you though was enough.

No, that is not the issue. You outright said "So your suggestion is to simply ban peanut butter, but never have the children told why?" When I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth then try to dodge the subject.

And as for the "grey area" that you speak of, I left it blank because I am not an expert nor do I even try to proclaim or try to prove I am. I don't have a magical fix all number because I don't have the information at hand and I don't pull a number out of nowhere.

1.) The impression that I got from your "allowing teachers to teach" point was that this would immediately lead to a zero tolerance classroom, as it has in the past. But in many of the cases of food banning in schools, I have heard very little about the children being educated as to why it is happening.
There were also arguments about how this could lead to bullies using this against the allergy sufferer. A counter point is that the other children could know how to react should this ever occur and save the other child's life.
Zero tolerance policies could be put in place, but only if the children are aware of why it is there and why breaking the rules could have very serious consequences, but they still did it anyway. At that point, they are deserving of punishment.

So you're against zero tolerance policies but in favor of them if the students know why it's a zero tolerance policy? Sorry, no. It still makes zero tolerance policies stupid because they can still be argued very effectively against and in the end it boils down to "it exists because I say so!"

2.) Depending on the age of the child, sometimes they do eat in the classroom. Snack time for the Kindergarten classes. Peanut allergies start up at a young age. Even kids this young can learn about them, keep the allergy sufferer safe, and still enjoy their PB sandwiches.
It seems to be a common practice these days, however, to have parents be asked to bring snacks that have no peanuts, no gluten, no eggs, no lactose, etc. So the blanket bans seen to be happening already in some places.

I never said the classroom. I said during class time and during lessons, aka when there is teaching going on.

3.)Dependant on the school, teachers are present during lunch periods. It makes their job a lot easier if all the children already know the risks of the allergies. Teaching it in the class can make their lunchtime supervisions safer for every child.
The teaching about allergies should also happen school wide, not just in the classrooms with allergic children. That's just common sense.

Which is why I agree to educate the kids during class time and supervise during recreation time like they're supposed to. I do not however like the idea of a blanket ban to "let teachers teach" like it's the only thing they are there for as had been previously stated. They are also there to supervise the children under their care.

I do apologise if my initial response to you came off as too abrupt, but it had appeared to me that you were attacking my idea of having the teachers teach instead of issuing bans.

None of which justifies taking what I said out of context and running with it to attack me which you have now done twice. If you want me to clarify what I said, then ask, but don't attack what I said with stuff that came out of nowhere.

[Rebel]

No, that is not the issue. You outright said "So your suggestion is to simply ban peanut butter, but never have the children told why?" When I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth then try to dodge the subject.

I was simply reacting to how your initial comment had come across to me, which was as an attack on my opinion that teachers should teach about allergies. I apologise if you took this as an attack but I was not dodging the subject.

And as for the "grey area" that you speak of, I left it blank because I am not an expert nor do I even try to proclaim or try to prove I am. I don't have a magical fix all number because I don't have the information at hand and I don't pull a number out of nowhere.

And my opinion was that bans are stupid irregardless of how many children are allergic. Unless the school is a special school comprised of 100% peanut allergy sufferers, peanut butter should not be banned.

So you're against zero tolerance policies but in favor of them if the students know why it's a zero tolerance policy? Sorry, no. It still makes zero tolerance policies stupid because they can still be argued very effectively against and in the end it boils down to "it exists because I say so!"

Any child actively seeking out to harm another child should be punished. If the child is fully aware that what they're doing could lead to injury or death of the other child, they should be expelled. The key point is that children should be aware of things such as this. If they are kept ignorant, they can not be held responsible.

I never said the classroom. I said during class time and during lessons, aka when there is teaching going on.

You did not say during lessons, you said during class time. Dependant on the class type and style, and the age of the children, this can include snacks and food.

Which is why I agree to educate the kids during class time and supervise during recreation time like they're supposed to. I do not however like the idea of a blanket ban to "let teachers teach" like it's the only thing they are there for as had been previously stated. They are also there to supervise the children under their care.

I'm gonna admit, at this point I'm confused. Can you please clarify what you meant by 'blanket ban to let teachers teach'?
My point was that by teaching about allergies during class, can lead to safer lunch-times without having any food banned. Win-win for the teachers and the children.

None of which justifies taking what I said out of context and running with it to attack me which you have now done twice. If you want me to clarify what I said, then ask, but don't attack what I said with stuff that came out of nowhere.

I was rebutting against your position on the subject. As is done in debates.

[MrsEclipse]

I just want to say why I find the peanut butter such a heated issue.

I wouldn't be nearly so pissed off at the banning of foods in the lunchroom if I actually had a choice in where I could have gone to school. I think I mentioned this a while ago on a thread about students getting in trouble for facebook posts they made at home. But schools really don't give you an inch. You HAVE to go here, you HAVE to be with these specific people, you HAVE to wear this, you HAVE to do a million little things that add up and add up until I want to scream.

As an adult, it's easier when I have to do certain things, because I chose to put myself in this situation. I hate my business teacher, hate the way he runs classes on three different websites. But I chose my major, and I chose this university. I hate that I pay so much in rent when my apartment complex doesn't even have a pool. But I chose to live here because of the convenience and floor space. But as a kid, in a horrible environment that I have no control over... well, the little things get a lot bigger.

I am a very fragile eater, and I always have been. There are few foods I can eat and keep down, so it's hard to filter that personal bias out.

It sucks that so many kids have allergies. I hate that people have to go through that.

So, I don't have a reasonable opinion.

[fireheart17]

And since everybody here keeps repeating themselves, I'll do the same:

The slippery slope argument in relation to other allergens is pointless.

-Most schools already provide alternatives to dairy products anyway because milk does not necessarily keep well at room temperature after a long period. (and schools do not sell long-life or soy milk in small form) While they may sell milk, it's there as an obvious point: "this is milk, if you're seriously allergic, don't have it". Unless you're cooking with it, you can't stick it into a clear bottle and go "Hey, this isn't milk, drink it" because most (if not all) schools don't sell soy products.
-In very, very, very, very rare cases (like maybe .01% of cases) a child may have a serious reaction when they are playing with people who have eaten something containing egg.
-Seafood allergies vary greatly between people, so one kid might be allergic to only shellfish, another kid may be allergic to salmon and so on. It just basically makes it harder to enforce a blanket ban. Also seafood is generally not packed in school lunches.
-Coeliacs (wheat/gluten allergy) generally have their own foods anyway and are usually taught from a young age to only eat whats in their lunch box and nothing more.
-Latex allergies sometimes go hand in hand with other allergies, but generally switching to non-latex alternatives doesn't cost that much. (For instance, we used to use latex gloves when cleaning up the yard, nowadays the kids get plastic gloves) Usually the plan isn't school-wide, it's kid focused.
-Nothing can be done to stop pollen-based allergies, apart from ensuring that the kid follows his/her allergy plan.

[Greenday]

-Coeliacs (wheat/gluten allergy) generally have their own foods anyway and are usually taught from a young age to only eat whats in their lunch box and nothing more.

So people who have kids with peanut allergies don't? Sounds like bad parenting to me. I'm pretty sure the teachers could give a quick "Don't share your lunches" speech and be done with it.

[Mishi]

Peanut allergy tends to manifest as anaphalactic shock, which means that every second counts whereas most people with Coeliacs Disease have trouble processing gluten/grains, so it manifests as tummy problems. Longterm exposure to gluten can result in increased risk of digestive tract cancers for people with Coeliacs, so it's 'safer' for kids with that problem to be taught differently and have more risk of exposure than kids with peanut allergy.

[HYHYBT]

Most schools already provide alternatives to dairy products anyway because milk does not necessarily keep well at room temperature after a long period.

Really? I've been out of (that kind of) school for quite a while, but when I was in it, there was no problem with milk spoiling. It sat in a refrigerator at the end of the lunch line, staying nice and cold until it was picked up by someone who already had their plate of food and was about to sit down to eat. Has something changed, that that arrangement no longer would work? Putting more options in that cooler would certainly be nice… I remember for two months of second grade I was in a school that also had lemonade and juice in there, and though I did and do like milk, it was nice to have a change now and then…

I'm pretty sure the teachers could give a quick "Don't share your lunches" speech and be done with it.

How about "don't trade lunches *if you can only eat certain foods*"? No reason not to let the others do it.

[AdminAssistant]

My school only had milk, in these big open coolers. You could choose between chocolate and regular when I was in school, but I don't think you can anymore. (Which would suck for me, because I can't stand the taste of plain milk.) They also used to have a soda machine for high schoolers and teachers, but they've gotten rid of that as well.

[blas87]

It's not an allergy, but I used to end up sick and unable to leave the bathroom for at least a day or two if I had garlic.

[Eisa]

We had milk cartons that were put in ice for meals, so when you were grabbing everything else, you could grab up to two little milk cartons. They also liked to experiment with it apparently, which led to occasionally having "root beer float" milk.

[Lace Neil Singer]

It's not an allergy, but I used to end up sick and unable to leave the bathroom for at least a day or two if I had garlic.

So, you're a vampire then?

[NoMoreRetail]

I know this thread is a couple of months old but I need to put my two cents in on the ban...

My autistic son is an very picky eater, with him it is about texture. He only eats peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for lunch. At his school their is a nut free table and it works out fine. To put a ban on all peanut butter ridiculous. If we are supposed to be accommodating to a few kids, then my son should be accommodated as well, since he is in a minority. For us it is not as simple as having him eat a meat sandwich instead and it has nothing to do with money. It has to do with the fact that my kid will not eat anything else period. (trust me I would love it if he ate something else, but he wont and I have learned to accept that) Most normal children when presented with the eat or starve option will eventually eat what is on their plate. My son however, will just not eat which makes for a very crabby child. Sad to say children with these allergies are different and they should be treated differently when it comes to these types of situations only. If it means separating them from the others then so be it. The world is not going to revolve around them when it comes to an allergy and they need to learn that when they are young.

[HYHYBT]

I am glad your son does not also have a peanut allergy, and hope he never develops one.

[SongsOfDragons]

Most people I personally know with allergies, intolerances or dietary preferences are perfectly happy to deal with it themselves; they know how to avoid X, Y and Z as they have done so for a while, and are able to do so with a minimum of disruption, and they're always happy and grateful when we do something special to accomodate them. They say 'aww, you don't need to', I say 'bleh, if I'm hosting, I want to '. It's not quite the same, but it could be said that I'm allergic to flashing lights. I don't bellow to remove all flashy scenes from TV or movies; I cover my eyes and wait till the flashy is over.

Teaching the young'uns that people MUST and WILL accomodate you automatically surely would develop bad manners if anything else. Keeping them safe and finding ways to do so is a good idea (duh Songs!) but a balance needs to be found to prepare them for the big wide world later. I like NoMoreRetail's son's school's system.