Cultural differences make violence OK?

[jackfaire]

To me, this is similar to pepper spraying a group from West Side Story, only with less finger snapping.

One blocking an exit is a huge fire hazard two what are they supposed to do,

"Oh we told you to move and you won't so uhm okay we are just going to leave now have a nice day.

[Seifer]

One blocking an exit is a huge fire hazard two what are they supposed to do,

"Oh we told you to move and you won't so uhm okay we are just going to leave now have a nice day.

As a great poet once said, "If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit."

I'm not sure how long hakas last, but it appeared to only be going on for about 10-15 seconds before the police officer sprayed the "leader" in the face with pepper spray. Why don't the bystanders wait for the show to end? Or better yet, go through another exit?

Sorry, but I seriously laughed when I first watched this video. It's so ridiculous it's amazing - like the dance-off competitions in the 80s. "You wanna dance this bitch out? SHOW ME YOUR MOVES!"

[jackfaire]

Except as far as I understand it the whole point is the police didn't know that's what it was and given that it has been said earlier in this thread that the Haka is a war dance and war dances are designed with one statement,

"we are about to fucking attack you" then it's understandable that people refusing to listen to lawful commands to clear a path and cease and desist would be seen as threatening.

And if you have to choose to take action as a police officer your safer pepper spraying someone rather than jumping to your next option which would be a baton to the stomach.

Hand controls only work on a one on one basis because if you step up to what appears to be an about to be out of control mob and use hand controls on one of them chances are the rest will jump you and someone will get hurt.

Not to mention that in smaller towns it has been known that fans may take their football a little too seriously.


And btw unless you live in a community where it's reasonable to assume that most of the people there know what your doing it might be helpful to tell someone beforehand what it is your doing.

[Greenday]

It's not like the police were left with any better options. You can't let a bunch of people continue doing a threatening dance blocking the exit and since they didn't move when asked to, force was necessary to get the job done. Tazers might have worked to and then the rest might have gotten the hint when people start spazzing around on the ground but people get in such an uproar over it for some reason.

It's like some people believe the police should never use force at all.

[KnitShoni]

Wait. So, one form of the haka is a war dance, so it's assumed that's what these guys performed? You can't just lump all haka under the description war dance and run with that as justification.

If the police had simply said they were blocking the exit and mentioned they were outnumbered (there were 2 officers and 15 dancers), their use of pepper spray might have been better received. It actually didn't matter what the dancers were doing. They were blocking a fire exit and wouldn't move.

[Andara Bledin]

Why don't the bystanders wait for the show to end? Or better yet, go through another exit?

First, they didn't know it was a show, and second, that was the only exit. There was no other way for any people who were on the field to leave the arena except through where those people had choked it up.

It actually didn't matter what the dancers were doing. They were blocking a fire exit and wouldn't move.

This.

There were a bunch of people who had been gathered for some time (over half of the video I linked is them getting ready to start, it's over really quickly after the cops move in) blocking the only exit, and the cops were already nervous.

They didn't respond when told to stop blocking the only exit and they were making what could be taken as threatening motions. What part of that scenario doesn't sound like a recipe for conflict?

^-.-^

[fireheart17]

I'm not sure how long hakas last,

the videos I linked early on in the thread go for about a minute. Generally the "leader" of the group gives out some instructions, followed by the chant/movements. All of this is done in Maori I might add.

Wait. So, one form of the haka is a war dance, so it's assumed that's what these guys performed? You can't just lump all haka under the description war dance and run with that as justification.

Correct. The more common form that has been introduced in the states however, IS the war dance. It's also used for entertainment or even welcoming purposes.

I wonder if the cops would've preferred them getting into a punch-up.

[HYHYBT]

One problem is the time. They didn't take enough trying to get their message through, but pretty much jumped to the spray immediately.

[Andara Bledin]

We don't have enough data to come to that conclusion.

The video doesn't show what the officers were up to while the guys were getting ready to stage the haka, so we don't know if they'd been warned, or what, prior to starting with their shouting.

As an aside, I'd never heard of or seen a haka prior to this thread, either.

^-.-^

[Seifer]

First, they didn't know it was a show, and second, that was the only exit. There was no other way for any people who were on the field to leave the arena except through where those people had choked it up.

If there is only one exit to a stadium then I'd say the Fire Marshal might want to have a word with the stadium owners.

Having one exit for any type of building is idiotic, especially a stadium which would probably be filled with several hundred (if not thousands) of people. What's going to happen if everyone panics and runs for the single exit at once?

In other words, I doubt that there was only one exit for that entire stadium.

Edited for truth: I just re-read the article and it states that there was only one exit for the teams. So basically, the special exit that leads to the locker rooms was being blocked, not the exit to the stadium.

[jackfaire]

Wait. So, one form of the haka is a war dance, so it's assumed that's what these guys performed?

Actually I was presuming that since a sporting event is a combat situation that the War Dance version of the Haka would be the most appropriate to the circumstances.

For example if there is talking at a wedding I don't assume it's trash talk like I would hear at a football game. I make the educated guess that the talking would be a form appropriate to the event at hand.

[fireheart17]

Actually I was presuming that since a sporting event is a combat situation that the War Dance version of the Haka would be the most appropriate to the circumstances.

For example if there is talking at a wedding I don't assume it's trash talk like I would hear at a football game. I make the educated guess that the talking would be a form appropriate to the event at hand.

Pretty much.

These are the words to the different haka(s?) which are used by the All Blacks (NZ Rugby team) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haka_of_the_All_Blacks


In the past, some teams or members of a team will ignore the haka being performed before a match, however usually out of respect and in the manner of good sportsmanship, the other team will watch the haka being performed. A couple of cases have cropped up where people will try and respond to the haka with their own gesture, which has varied from song through to staring back at the performers.

ETA: Even the Queen has applauded it. (another version of Ka Mate being performed at the 2002 Commonwealth games)