Father Teaches Daughter Lesson About Facebook

[Ree]

I guess it's the "waste" factor that I have a hard time getting around. If he sold the thing or gave it away, it would strike me as a lot less warped.

Why bring the gun out in the first place?

That is exactly my problem with it.
That, and the videotaping and public posting.

[kibbles]

Taking away things as punishment is perfectly acceptable, using a loaded weapon as a way of punishing a child is unstable at best. Using a gun to teach a child a lesson..I think that's the proof right there that he is unstable.

And that's not even to point out the videotaping and public posting as Ree pointed out.

[HYHYBT]

I think getting kids to understand what a reasonable parent puts down as a rule will be followed or a punishment will quickly follow.

Of course. This isn't even in dispute, so why position this as if it were? But a reasonable parent does not make a rule that you must never complain. And a reasonable parent doesn't stage a public tantrum.

Note to all would-be Facebook ranters: Don't exclude people you don't want to see something, because you will always forget or miss someone.

Better yet, don't put things you want to exclude *anyone* from on Facebook.

His posting went out to his contact list, not the entire world. Yes, the entire world ended up having access to the YouTube video, but he did not seek out views.

I think he did. Otherwise, Youtube has a feature (the name of which I cannot remember) where only certain people can see a video, and surely such an expert would know about it.

As far as punishing her for expressing her opinion: Sure, she has the right to do so. How, exactly, does that absolve her of any consequence should she be disrespectful in the process?

How is it rational FOR THIS TO BE a consequence of being disrespectful, particularly under the circumstances (those being that it was *intended* that he wouldn't hear it)?

What did he do that was either irrational or insane?

He threw a tantrum on Youtube for the world to see (and, again, it *was* meant for the world to see, proven by his not making the video private if nothing else) to punish his daughter for complaining.

This wasn't just that she went online to rant to her peers. This was that she'd been grounded for ranting online to her peers quite recently...

...which was itself unreasonable. "Ranting to peers" should carry NO penalty. And he makes it pretty clear that's what this was about. If it were *only* a matter of being careful about what you let the public see, and how if you're going to say that sort of thing you should be sure it's not where others can happen on it, that would be different. But it's all too plain that's not what this is about.

As for the importance of following through on promised punishments... that only goes if the punishment is close enough to reasonable. (In this case, considering this an *offense* is at least problematic, much less the level of response.)

[MadMike]

Because that's what he told her would happen if she did this again. She had prior warning of the consequences of her actions, and he followed through to let her know that when he says he's going to do something, that's what he's going to do.

That sounds like an argument an abuser would make. "I got home from work, and dinner wasn't ready. I told her if it happened again, she'd get a black eye. Well, it happened again the next day, so I gave her a black eye. She was warned what would happen. That woman has to learn her place."

I have so many problems with what the father did, for so many reasons. Was it OK for the daughter to badmouth him like she did? No, it wasn't, but as a parent myself, I understand that you have to realize that no matter how fair you think you're being, sooner or later, your child is going to think you're a bastard, and possibly even vent about it. My son and I don't always get along, and if I found out he was venting to his friends about what a terrible father I was, I'd be hurt, but I certainly wouldn't go destroying things over it. You have to have a thick skin if you're going to have kids. They're not always going to worship the ground you walk on, and to expect them to is just ridiculous.

The violent acting out that the father did also troubles me. How many abusers destroy personal belongings to flex their self-perceived muscles? And in many cases, first it's just objects they're throwing around, but eventually it's the other person.

Someone pointed out that the daughter is going to remember this even after she grows up, and resent him for it forever. I agree with that one as well. While my parents weren't bad parents, they made a few mistakes along the way, and I still resent some of those mistakes to this day, and I'm going to be 43 in a week. And I know I overreacted a few times to some of the scuffles my son and I have had while he was growing up. While he and I get along for the most part, and he even tells me I was a "good dad", especially with him having to grow up without a mother, I hate to think how the screwups I did make are going to stick with him.

Bottom line, the father proved himself to be an immature bully, and a jackass.

[Racket_Man]

I haven't even watched the video.
I saw it posted on several of my friends' FB walls.
There was a headline on my homepage when I opened my browser.
I read a description of what the video contained, and that was enough for me.

The very fact that the father filmed it and posted it was enough to make me think he was a total dick. His sole purpose was to humiliate his daughter. He succeeded.

The teen sounded like a spoiled, obnoxious brat, but I am a firm believer that their behaviour as they grow is a reflection of the parenting they have been given.

If she was posting nasty crap on FB about her parents and the "cleaning lady", then he should be asking himself what kind of values he has taught his daughter.
If she was so spoiled that she felt actually helping out around the house was beneath her, then he needs to stop and think about where that perception may have come from.

He destroyed an expensive piece of electronics that he will probably go out and replace once the spotlight is off of them.

I agree with the comment that, if this was another adult, or the guy's spouse who had complained, that type of behaviour would be considered totally inappropriate.

I do not commend his parenting skills at all.

First of all, I KNOW there are a few on the side of the Father that do NOT have children, have not raised a child(ren), or heavily assisted in the upbringing of a child(ren). This is VERY apparent in your responces AND logic AND reasoning.

This is one of those situations where being a parent (and not some Monday morning armchair quarterback) has a lot of relevance. Unless you have had upclose and personal experience with children (at all ages) I think you just to not get it.


parenting by its vary nature does NOT have a black and white set of nice and neat rules or proceudres to follow printed in a attractive book. Most parents "wing it", do what their parents did with them and just do the best they can. though there are some who follow the "advice" of some quack pop psychologist(s) and think their child(ren) will automatically l turn out nice mentally healthy adults. believe me it is NEVER that easy. unless you are very very lucky and give birth to that "perfect child" you will have a lifetime struggle (and no parenting does NOT end at age 18 or when they leave the house for most parents).

my DD was, to use a phrase "diffucult". despite all our (mine and my Ex's) efforts she was a child that could have easily been abused (NOTE I SAID could have been she was not abused). DD had a "I don';t want to listen to anything you have to say" and "I WILL do my own thing" mentality reguardless of ANY consiquences we set forth. at home this was at least partially controlable. once she got into school it became a team effort.

We even worked with my Mother (DD's grandmother) to try and give DD consequences. we tried dangling DDs annual week with Grandma as an incentive to "improve" her behavior. Grandma even got on the phone with DD to explain the situation. we even placed a calander on DDs door to remind her of her "progress". that lasted 2 week and totally fell apart because of DDs behavior. and NO she did not get to go to Gramdma's that summer (NOTE the follow through on our part).

along the way we got the usual "I HATE YOU" message screamed at us for consequences we put forth. Did we, at times, seriously consider smashing and breaking dd stuff??? YES BUT we never did becaused we realized that we were lowering ourselves to her level. was there childish behavior???? YES

We just took stuff away each and everytime, got screamed at, but in the end it seemed DD did learn something.

Is a parent acting like a 5 year old acceptable???? NO!! is that same parent acting like a 5 year old in a public forum acceptable???? HELL NO!!!!

As a PARENT you must consider the example you set. sure it will be difficult along the way and the road will be bumpy and long, but in end you do the best you can. I do not care how MANY child psychologists say they have the answer --- THEY DO NOT.

Now throw in genetics, environment, socialisation, peers, home environment, parenting style, school, premissiveness or control, siblings, rivaliry out and inside of the home, and a host of other factors and you have a witch'a brew of what is called personality (from the meek and mild to the psycho).

I this girl "normal"????? as far as normal goes maybe. a little spoiled perhaps. will she carry the "scars" of this childish situation????? YES does her parents come accross as childish????? YES


I think in this stituation we do not know all of the things that have gone on prior to this "shooting gallery" situation

[Boozy]

First of all, I KNOW there are a few on the side of the Father that do NOT have children, have not raised a child(ren), or heavily assisted in the upbringing of a child(ren). This is VERY apparent in your responces AND logic AND reasoning.

Are you kidding me? Ree has not only raised her own daughter, but has been a foster parent to many kids (how many now, Ree?)

When it comes to dealing with troubled teenage girls, Ree has more experience than anyone here.

Edit: With all of that said, your post goes on to make the same arguments as Ree, so I'm not entirely sure what point you were trying to make in calling out her "lack of experience". It appears you two are arguing the same side. Am I missing something?

[Greenday]

Are you kidding me? Ree has not only raised her own daughter, but has been a foster parent to many kids (how many now, Ree?)

When it comes to dealing with troubled teenage girls, Ree has more experience than anyone here.

Yea, Ree is probably one of the most experienced, if not THE most experience, parents on the board.

I think what some of us don't realize is that one set of parenting rules doesn't work for all kids. Some kids you can be very relaxed with and don't need tons of boundaries. That worked well for my sister and I. My mom didn't have to set many rules, especially for me, because we nearly never got in trouble. On the other hand, my aunt tried that with my cousin and he's FUBAR. He really needed rules and boundaries and my aunt didn't give them to him. As a result, he kept getting in trouble and never learned about the consequences of his actions.

Maybe this girl is like my cousin and needs the strict discipline.

[DrFaroohk]

It doesn't matter that it was facebook and she didn't hide it well enough. That's like blaming someone for getting robbed because they didn't hide their keys well enough. Someone who will snoop on a facebook page will also read a diary, check phone messages, etc...

Which is fine in certain areas. You bet your ass I'll be checking up on my kids as they get older. And If I see my daughter's cellphone has texts about scoring some crystal meth, she and I will be having words. If she's got a text about how annoying her fatass dad is, well, tough shit for me huh?

I can sort of see her getting pissed about the cleaning. Why bother having a housekeeper if you're going to make your kids do all the work? Reminds me of my dad teaching me "hard work" as a kid. "Now take this pile of wood, and stack it 3 inches to the left of where it was." So all I learned was that "hard work" is doing the most pointlessly time consuming, back breaking things you can do.

I'd be pissed if we had a cleaning lady, whom we had to pay and thus couldn't afford certain things, yet I was still asked to do HER job all the time.

Some people say it was disrespectful, again I have to disagree here, because most people do not know what respect really means. It does not mean "Do everything you say." It also does not mean "Think you can do no wrong!" Disrespect would be if she said to her dad "Fuck you old man, I aint your slave ho." Her dad eavesdropping on her? That's disrespectful, any way you slice it.

[Ree]

Maybe this girl is like my cousin and needs the strict discipline.

That may well be true, Greenday, but in my opinion, what the father did was not discipline.

It was an over the top, vengeful act done for shock value.

Discipline should be constructive, and it needs to be consistent.

As BlaqueKatt has said, we do not have all the facts in this situation.
We only have a small snapshot of a situation in this family's life.
From the father's FB page, (which, BTW, he still has as public, despite his claims that he just wants it all to go away)

You guys caught me on eight and a half minutes of ONE day in my life, probably the worst day in my life as a father.

As I said, I have not watched the video, so perhaps I shouldn't even be commenting.
I refuse to give the video any more fame by viewing it, though, as I know every time a YouTube video gets viewed, it is logged and tracked to gauge popularity.

I have read several "news" articles and blog posts describing what is in the video and quoting the father and daughter.

I think he had a good message, and his intentions were good, but the way he went about sending that message was not a good one.

He claims that it was only meant for the viewing of his FB friends, and his daughter's FB friends, which he estimates was about 500 people, but it went out of control and viral, and became much more of a spectacle than he thought.
The fact remains that he still made the video for viewing by others as a way of humiliating her.

If he didn't want it to get out of hand, he could have simply uploaded the video to his FB page and made it friends only. Better still, don't film it and make it public.
He wanted to embarrass her.

He was pissed off and upset that she was bashing him on the internet, and that's all it was. This is from his FB page.

I was angry, hurt as hell, emotional as can possibly be, and stunned still.

No parent is perfect, and we all just do the best we can. Kids piss us off, but we have to do the best we can not to make the discipline about revenge and venting our anger.
It's not easy.

(While I appreciate all the kind words about my experience as a parent, I admit a lot of the time, I was simply winging it and hoping I didn't damage any of the kids emotionally too badly. To answer the question, I raised one biological daughter, and in 9 years of foster care, have had 7 teen girls in my care. Every single one of those children was unique, and I had to adapt my parenting for each one. It wasn't easy at one point when I had 2 teen foster children in my home at the same time while my daughter was also in her teens. I got accusations of favoritism and claims that I was treating them differently. Why, yes, as a matter of fact I was, because what worked with one did not work with another.)

I completely understand the frustration of this father, but I think blowing away her computer with a gun was a ridiculous way to make a point.
Even so, if he had done it and kept it between him and his family, I would have had less of an issue with the act.

I have read some of his FB page, and he really does seem like just an average father trying to do the best he can with the skills he has.
He says he raises his children with "old-fashioned" values.
His daughter sounds like a pretty well adjusted young lady and actually quite far from the spoiled pouting brat she seemed to have been made out to be because of the video and his extreme reaction. (He mentions she is in Honors Geometry.)

If all of that is the case, then I really have to wonder about such an extreme reaction to a 15 year old girl whining on FB about having to do chores and demanding to be paid for her work.

Do I think this has damaged her emotionally?
Do I think the father is an insane, gun toting loose cannon who could hurt his family one day?
No. I don't.

I think he is just an average man who made a really, really stupid decision to publicize himself handling a pretty simple parenting problem in a very bad, very extreme manner.

I do not think he deserves the accolades and cult status as a parental hero that he appears to be getting because of this.

[PepperElf]

He mentioned it about halfway through.

If she's having problems now, what is she going to do when she has to work full-time for a living, has to pay bills, has to manager her own time, have to clean her own place, have to cook for herself, etc. etc.?

this is what i was thinking of.

i don't remember his exact words of their expectations of her but it was along the lines of getting up on time, doing her school work and chores.



the problem is there ARE some kids out there who are locked in the whole "mommy and daddy ABUSE ME!" dramarama... not because they're actually abused but because they have to do basic chores and can't spend all their time texting and playing.

I mean sure sis and i moaned at chores but some kids take it to extremes these days. like how SCs say "you ruined christmas!" because you didn't have a dumb toy in stock.

overreaction overdramatic.



and hell i can see why he was mad. he just spent over $100 bucks upgrading her laptop, only to have her whine about them in public and block them from seeing it... cos she knew she would get in trouble for what she wrote.


http://www.news.ninemsn.com.au/world...aptop-shooting

but apparently they've reconciled. she's still in trouble but she's taking it well now that the initial drama is over.

[Amanita]

If seeing a rant his daughter posted because she was frustrated is the worst day this guy has had as a father, he should consider himself blessed. There's a lot of fathers out there who would take his troubles any day of the week.

[PepperElf]

If seeing a rant his daughter posted because she was frustrated is the worst day this guy has had as a father, he should consider himself blessed. There's a lot of fathers out there who would take his troubles any day of the week.

but i'm betting she'll turn out all the better for it.




this is why i personally believe parents should be aware of what their children do online.

my own nephew was denied a facebook account. he got around it by having a friend make one for him... but sis said no and he had to have the account deleted.


in a way, aside from shooting the computer, his approach wasn't much different than the "kick them out of the garden of eden" approach popularized by John Rosemond.


Although I haven't had children myself, my mother did and he's one of the few child psychologists she agrees with. including the "eden" approach.


The idea is that for very bad behavior (in one example story it was for a child for mocking her younger mentally-challenged sister in front of other students), the punishment lasts one month. If the behavior repeats itself the counter restarts at day one. Even if it's the last day.

The punishment is basically extreme grounding. The child comes home and finds the room is stripped. all they have left is clothes and a bed (well obviously curtains but you get the point). No toys, no books except school books, no computer, no tv.



now the question is... is accusing your parents of abusing you and treating you like a slave - in public - worthy of such a punishment.

considering the ramifications of CPS involvement.... i think the punishment is not overboard

[Gravekeeper]

Discipline should be constructive, and it needs to be consistent.

This is the other thing. If you punish a child harshly for something like this, you're not teaching them respect. You're teaching them to hide it better the next time. >.>

[jackfaire]

I think part of the problem is context. There is a difference between "I am ranting about my parents and I really believe what I am saying" vs "I am ranting about my parents because I am upset and 10 minutes from now it won't matter"

By this guy's theory every time my daughter has gotten mad at me and said she hates me I should ground her or in some other way punish her but honestly at least in the case of my daughter all that would do is turn the "I am pissed off and hate you" into a "no I really do hate you"

[KnitShoni]

This is the other thing. If you punish a child harshly for something like this, you're not teaching them respect. You're teaching them to hide it better the next time. >.>

That excuse is used, by quite a few people, to oppose any form of discipline at all.