41 year old teacher quits job, leaves wife and kids...

[AdminAssistant]

Though even if she had been of typical college student age, there would have been nothing illegal about it, though it may have been a little squeamish to think about.

As long as he waited until she was out of his class to pursue the relationship. We're not supposed to date students while they're in our classes. If a previous or pre-existing relationship exists, you have to at least get someone else to grade their work.

[crashhelmet]

The article says that the girl's father died in 2001. She could be having "Daddy Issues" and be just as responsible for what happened here as he is, if not more.

[LadyBarbossa]

My main issue with this situation is what the guy did to his wife and kids, and doesn't give a shit how this is making them feel or how it's destroyed their lives. Once he made the decision to become a father, I'm sorry, his childrens' happiness should come FIRST. All these fuckwits can go on about is "Follow our hearts" and "Our relationship this/that" and how he wants to start a new family, but she 'doesn't know' where she sees herself in five years. I just want to punt this guy in the crotch, hard.

[Greenday]

My main issue with this situation is what the guy did to his wife and kids, and doesn't give a shit how this is making them feel or how it's destroyed their lives. Once he made the decision to become a father, I'm sorry, his childrens' happiness should come FIRST. All these fuckwits can go on about is "Follow our hearts" and "Our relationship this/that" and how he wants to start a new family, but she 'doesn't know' where she sees herself in five years. I just want to punt this guy in the crotch, hard.

I'm going to have to disagree with just about everything you said. You have no proof he doesn't care how they feel. And kids are not a valid reason for staying in a relationship.

[Andara Bledin]

I'm going to have to disagree with just about everything you said. You have no proof he doesn't care how they feel. And kids are not a valid reason for staying in a relationship.

This. Forcing yourself to stay in a relationship "for the kids" can be just as bad or worse for them than just taking off.

Regardless, both parties are idiots, with him being the greater for being old enough to know better.

^-.-^

[jackfaire]

This. Forcing yourself to stay in a relationship "for the kids" can be just as bad or worse for them than just taking off.

Triple this.

Growing up I wanted to slap every well adjusted happy friend of mine who grew up in a healthy environment that would complain that even though their parents fought all the time they would have been better off not being child of divorced couple.

The thing is I get it maybe they have a perspective I don't. But they could never tell me why.

While I could tell them hiding in your room and feeling tense every time your parents were in the same room sucked.

[LadyBarbossa]

I didn't mean to say that he should stay in an unhappy relationship 'for the kids', but is rather choosing to enter into one regardless of everyone else in his life. Either way, he's going to be feeling like an ass when this kid leaves him, and I'm almost positive she will, given her comment about not knowing where she'll be in 5 years.

[Racket_Man]

BIG UPDATE: Teacher get arrested on a 1998 molestation charge

Seems as if this particular teacher does INDEED like the young ones.

Is anyone surprised by this???

[draco664]

BIG UPDATE: Teacher get arrested on a 1998 molestation charge

Seems as if this particular teacher does INDEED like the young ones.

Is anyone surprised by this???

Surprised? I'd only be surprised if anyone was actually surprised. If that makes sense.

[Slytovhand]

You know, it's threads like this that made me post mine about age-ism being alive and well!

So, he's 41 and she's 18... Numbers do NOT dictate personality, likes, dislikes, honesty, integrity, morals, values, beliefs, etc etc.

On THIS occasion, there may well be issues that need addressing (we still don't know the facts!, but people - including the girl - have already decided his guilt!), but until they are sorted, all we can offer is our own opinion on the matter... an opinion that has already been coloured by our attitudes and personal beliefs.

And, FTR, this made headlines in the US.. in other countries around the world, this would be considered 'business as usual'-

(and, FTR, I'm not saying what happened here was fine - only pointing out the bandwagon that people jumped on).

[Gravekeeper]

You know, it's threads like this that made me post mine about age-ism being alive and well!

So, he's 41 and she's 18... Numbers do NOT dictate personality, likes, dislikes, honesty, integrity, morals, values, beliefs, etc etc.

They do, however, dictate maturity and there is a direct link between young marriage age, divorce rate and emotional problems in later life. You can rant about ageism all you want, but this is not a matter of ageism, its a matter of life experience and priorities. 18 vs 41 is a relationship with a power imbalance. Especially seeing as this man was in a position of authority over her to begin with. At 41, his priorities and personality are not likely to make any further shifts. At 18, her priorities and personality are still in flux and will be totally different 5 years from now and quite likely won't include him.

When that occurs, he'll just be a sad, stupid middle aged man that gave up his life for some young poon. While I don't think this is worthy of a national headline and a public crucifiction, its certainly worthy of concern for her and ridicule for him.

And yes, this would make a headline of some sort in most industralized nations because the media loves this sort of crap.

(and, FTR, I'm not saying what happened here was fine - only pointing out the bandwagon that people jumped on).

Just because the majority agrees does not make it a bandwagon.

[Slytovhand]

And yes, this would make a headline of some sort in most industralized nations because the media loves this sort of crap.

Which, the public laps up, because the sheeples have been told (by the media, no less) that they're supposed to!

"Just because the majority agrees does not make it a bandwagon. "

In and of itself, no. But, when counter-arguments are ignored, and counter-examples not even considered, then yes - it becomes a bandwagon...

My point was (even though in this case it seems to have gone the way ppl were thinking), it was possible that the girl was one of those special individuals who is mature beyond her years - wise, intelligent, capable, independent, etc etc. She could have been the sort of person who stands out amongst her peers as being either a leader, or a bit of an outcast, due to her differences in seeing the world... to such a degree as to make her seem an acceptable person to have a relationship with for this guy. I saw it at the uni I went to - 2 students - the guy in his 40's, the girl in her late teens, early 20's - and they seemed good for each other. (I might add, they were philosophy majors, so I'd suggest her way of seeing the world was different from most others of her age).

Sometimes, you know, it happens! Deciding whether it's going to work or not, based purely on the age number, is purely ageism. (see that other link I put up).

In most other societies around the world, it's not that big a deal! (well, ok, the 18 year old high school student bit is...)

Q. would there be a difference if she was a high-school drop-out (from a different school, or area), and they met at a mall sometime, and it went from there?

[Gravekeeper]

Which, the public laps up, because the sheeples have been told (by the media, no less) that they're supposed to!

Really? You're going to blame people's concerns over a 41 year old teacher picking up a student thats barely past being a minor to people just doing what the media tells them? -.-

In and of itself, no. But, when counter-arguments are ignored, and counter-examples not even considered, then yes - it becomes a bandwagon...

No, no it doesn't. A bandwagon means we're all hopping on because its the popular thing to do. I also don't know what counter arguments or examples you're talking about as there is no contradictory position being argued that's been shouted down by the majority anywhere in this thread.

My point was (even though in this case it seems to have gone the way ppl were thinking), it was possible that the girl was one of those special individuals who is mature beyond her years - wise, intelligent, capable, independent, etc etc. She could have been the sort of person who stands out amongst her peers as being either a leader, or a bit of an outcast, due to her differences in seeing the world... to such a degree as to make her seem an acceptable person to have a relationship with for this guy.

An extremely rare scenario that goes directly in the face of all probability. You can't argue that everyone is wrong because they're looking at it from the 99.9% chance while you look at it from the 0.1%.

I saw it at the uni I went to - 2 students - the guy in his 40's, the girl in her late teens, early 20's - and they seemed good for each other. (I might add, they were philosophy majors, so I'd suggest her way of seeing the world was different from most others of her age).

That is a different scenario. You're talking about college students on equal footing. We're talking about a significantly older person in a position of authority over a minor who shacked up with that minor the moment the law allowed him too. Also, I call bullshit on anyone that claims they are the same person at 25 as they were at 17-18.

Life experience changes you. There is a fuckton of growing up that occurs when you hit the real world and are suddenly responsible for yourself. I would never, ever date ANYONE now that I dated when I was 17-20. I'd stab myself in the face with the nearest available writing instrument first.

I *have* made this mistake. I've watched this first hand using the same logic you're trying to apply when a younger girl asked me out when I was 24. 19 vs 24. Just a 5 year difference. But because that 5 year difference spanned the most formative years of a person's adult life, we ended up being in totally different places in our respective lives and maturity levels specifically because of the difference in our life experience.

It was a complete and total disaster.

Sometimes, you know, it happens! Deciding whether it's going to work or not, based purely on the age number, is purely ageism. (see that other link I put up).

No its not. Stop harping on ageism. This isn't about ageism. This is about the high probability of this being an unhealthy relationship that may have life long effects on the girl after it falls apart. There is a fuckton of valid reasons presented in this thread. None of which have to do with ageism.

Q. would there be a difference if she was a high-school drop-out (from a different school, or area), and they met at a mall sometime, and it went from there?

Not much of one. Though the media might not care as much. Still it might get a nibble because he's still a high school teacher.

[Slytovhand]

'An extremely rare scenario that goes directly in the face of all probability. You can't argue that everyone is wrong because they're looking at it from the 99.9% chance while you look at it from the 0.1%. "

And these numbers are coming from...????

Dude, I'm living in a country where this practice happens A LOT - are you going to argue that the people here are all emotionally fucked up because of it? (yes, they are emotionally fucked up here, but not because of that!)

"No its not. Stop harping on ageism. This isn't about ageism. This is about the high probability of this being an unhealthy relationship that may have life long effects on the girl after it falls apart. There is a fuckton of valid reasons presented in this thread. None of which have to do with ageism. "

GK - people have posted about the AGES of this couple - NOT so much that he was a teacher! Additionally, of the 28 posts on this thread, while a few are not directly related to the story, those that are are more about the age difference, and less that he's a teacher and she's a student. "mid-life crisis", "sad, pathetic codger", and even "sad, stupid middle aged man"... not 'her teacher' in that mix.

The contradictory opinions are on the other thread. Also, Guywithashovel presented a few examples here. Not 'shouted down', but certainly ignored.


Question - is the 'unhealthy relationship' caused by what actually happens in the relationship itself, or in how society views it? (go back to my previous paragraph about different countries, and in different times...).

Btw, I've made some bad relationship decisions as well - last one was when I was 31 and she was 42... same reasons you just mentioned (different places in our lives, and respective maturity levels - me being the more mature)... what's the significant difference? Life is all about experience, NOT about 'playing it safe all the time'.

Don't get me wrong - I'm NOT saying we should blindly accept all such relationship as fine and dandy, nor to encourage them (as has been done in the past), but I don't think we should go off the rocker (and start making accusations of rape, abuse, or 'unhealthy 'relationships') every time this sort of thing gets into the media (and, sure as ... every time one of these sorts of things hits the media, it gets linked to here as well, and the SAME sort of posts come up!) You don't read about the times when, years later, the couple are still together, happily married and still loving it! (that doesn't make for interesting stories!!)

[Gravekeeper]

And these numbers are coming from...????

Do you have an example where this scenario has actually worked in the long term, contrary to the trainwrecks normally seen?

Dude, I'm living in a country where this practice happens A LOT - are you going to argue that the people here are all emotionally fucked up because of it? (yes, they are emotionally fucked up here, but not because of that!)

And because it happens there its okay and magically negates any problems? There are countries where a 40 year old can marry a 12 year old. Hell, there are countries where you have to marry your rapist. Marrying young, powerless girls off to much older men is a throwback to less pleasant points in history.

Again, there is a direct correlation between young marriage age and emotional problems later in life. There is also a direct correlation between divorce rates and younger ages. You're not ready for a serious long term relationship in your teens, no matter what you might think when you're at that age. Sure, some people manage to be high school sweet hearts and marry long term. But they are on equal footing with each other and facing life together and considering the time period they might have met likely under cultural pressure to stay together even if miserable. Even with that, there's a good chance that like me and my high school sweetheart, you'll turn into two completely different people over the next 2-3 years of real life. People who are not compadible. Which is what happened to us.

But that's not what we're talking about with this case. We're talking about a relationship where one person has less power, less relationship experience and no life experience in a relationship with someone whose already middle aged and has a very different perspective and all the experience.

Ironically, it leads to exactly what you've been trying to argue for: Ageism. In a span like 18 vs 41, ageism is neigh impossible to avoid. At some point, 41 is going to pull ageism on 18. Because 41 has all the life experience and is old enough to have already *raised* someone to 18. Inevitably he's going to fall at least partially into a weird parental role whether he means to or not. If he hasn't already seeing as the 18 in this case recently lost her father and may be trying to fill that gap.

GK - people have posted about the AGES of this couple - NOT so much that he was a teacher! Additionally, of the 28 posts on this thread, while a few are not directly related to the story, those that are are more about the age difference, and less that he's a teacher and she's a student. "mid-life crisis", "sad, pathetic codger", and even "sad, stupid middle aged man"... not 'her teacher' in that mix.

And again, age difference is not ageism. The problem is stemming not from discrimination but the vast difference in life experience and the balance of power in the relationship. That's why people are saying that. Because at 41, he should be old enough to know better. Which means he's either a twit, or he's intentionally getting with a barely legal female that he has power over. The idea that this is some amazing romantic meeting of soul mates is so incredibly unlikely as to be laughable.

Question - is the 'unhealthy relationship' caused by what actually happens in the relationship itself, or in how society views it? (go back to my previous paragraph about different countries, and in different times...).

The former.

Btw, I've made some bad relationship decisions as well - last one was when I was 31 and she was 42... same reasons you just mentioned (different places in our lives, and respective maturity levels - me being the more mature)... what's the significant difference? Life is all about experience, NOT about 'playing it safe all the time'.

The difference is both of you had life experience. This scenario, only 1 does.

Don't get me wrong - I'm NOT saying we should blindly accept all such relationship as fine and dandy, nor to encourage them (as has been done in the past), but I don't think we should go off the rocker (and start making accusations of rape, abuse, or 'unhealthy 'relationships') every time this sort of thing gets into the media (and, sure as ... every time one of these sorts of things hits the media, it gets linked to here as well, and the SAME sort of posts come up!)

The possibility of this being a healthy relationship is incredibly low. Thats WHY everyone is concerned.

You don't read about the times when, years later, the couple are still together, happily married and still loving it! (that doesn't make for interesting stories!!)

You don't read about the times when, years later, the younger one realises her terrible mistake, break ups with him and the turns into an alcoholic either.