Neighbourhood Watch Kills Unarmed Black Kid

[Greenday]

Seems to me that he didn't do that.

Another thing we don't have proof of. For all we know, as soon as he hung up, the kid confronted him.

[Ree]

Another thing we don't have proof of. For all we know, as soon as he hung up, the kid confronted him.

And physically forced him out of the car???

Threatened to beat him about the head with a can of iced tea?

If that's the case, then he should have rolled up his window and driven away to wait for the police.

No. He wanted to be the big hero and get this undesirable element out of his community.

[Andara Bledin]

Threatened to beat him about the head with a can of iced tea?

And a threat of that would be as far as he got, since the tea was listed as being found still in his pocket, with the skittles in the one on the other side.

All Martin had for his side of the fight were his fists and 140 lbs of teenage muscle.

Zimmerman was 9 years older, likely larger, had a car and had a gun.

Reports state that Zimmerman had a bloody nose and back of the head, and he had grass on the back of his shirt.

Now, there's no way to know what happened unless a witness comes forward, but the fact that they were up on someone's lawn gives me the impression that Zimmerman, coming up from the street, backed Martin up until such a point that Martin feared for his own safety and threw a punch to Zimmerman's face, bloodying his nose and knocking him onto his back.

The only damage to Martin was the gunshot wound, which was to the chest, and he was found face down on the lawn. That tells me that they were likely not grappling at the time of the shot as there was no blood reported to be on Zimmerman, and Martin fell forward unimpeded. Whether there is powder residue on Martin's shirt will be a major factor in determining distance.

Another thing to consider is that Zimmerman claims to have yelled out for people to help him, but the reports of the later 9-1-1 calls for the gunshots don't mention his supposed yelling, though it's possible that it simply wasn't passed on or reported.

^-.-^

[bara]

Another thing we don't have proof of. For all we know, as soon as he hung up, the kid confronted him.

From the article.

“For some reason he felt that Trayvon, the way that he was walking or appeared seemed suspicious to him,” Lee said. “He called this in and at one part of this initial call [the dispatcher] recommends him not to follow Trayvon. A police officer is on the way at that point.”

Lee said that Zimmerman instead followed Martin.

“I believe that Mr. Zimmerman was trying to, by his account, find an address to give the officers and also trying to keep Trayvon in eyesight.”

From this I would say its safe to say he did in fact continue to follow the teen after he had been advised against doing just that.

The fact the he was less than 100ft from his house is something I also find suspicious. Could be coincidence though.

[Greenday]

Lee said that Zimmerman instead followed Martin.

And where did this person get this information since he wasn't even there to witness this?

[KnitShoni]

And where did this person get this information since he wasn't even there to witness this?

"This person" being the police chief leading the investigation? The guy whose job it is to find out what happened?

[Ree]

And where did this person get this information since he wasn't even there to witness this?

I'm assuming since he is referred to as "Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee" that it probably came from the files related to the investigation.

*LOL...posted at the same time as KnitShoni

[Greenday]

But there hasn't been one mention of witnesses so it's just confusing me as to whether or not this is backed by facts or whether it's just guessing.

[KnitShoni]

...Because the words of the dispatcher who told Zimmerman not to follow Martin, and Zimmerman's own words that he was trying to keep the boy in sight...they don't count?

[Ree]

But there hasn't been one mention of witnesses so it's just confusing me as to whether or not this is backed by facts or whether it's just guessing.

I took it as the words of a police officer close to the investigation, which, I assume, included questioning Zimmerman about what happened, as well as listening to the 911 calls.
I guess I just felt, since it was the police sergeant speaking to the press, that he had his facts straight before talking to them.

Call me naive...

[Ginger Tea]

Another thing to consider is that Zimmerman claims to have yelled out for people to help him, but the reports of the later 9-1-1 calls for the gunshots don't mention his supposed yelling, though it's possible that it simply wasn't passed on or reported.

And yet when I read that line my mind had him yelling
"Can someone help me move this dead nigger!"
It is after all a request for help.

Regarding kids walking down your street who don't live there/walking late at night.

One implies you have a good sence of community where you know alot of people on your street so will know the second you see someone who doesn't belong.
Yet you then give the impression that where you live is not somewhere people under legal age should not be out after dark.

Reads like
"I know everyone on my street, that's why I have tripple locks and six inch steel doors."

Myself, I wouldn't notice my next door neighbour anywhere in town only if I saw them in the front porch, so I would never have a clue if some wondering child lived on my street or not, but as I live on a busy main road with a bus route, I see people come and go and never see them again.

[KnitShoni]

That's what I don't get. This wasn't just some random teenager wandering through the neighborhood. His father lived there. If Zimmerman had actually spoken to the boy at any point during the "confrontation," surely this would have come out?

[bainsidhe]

One of the videos from an earlier posted link showed where the teenager was found. The community looks a bit like a large apt complex, where you leave the street and then walk a path around and behind buildings. The victim was found behind one of the buildings. So this tells me that either Zimmerman got out of his SUV and continued to follow a short ways on foot before the struggle began, OR Zimmerman got out of his vehicle, began a confrontation, and then chased the victim.

Here's the thing. The victim was 17, and 17-year-olds I've seen look damn near like an adult. Sounds like the kid gave Zimmerman quite the beat down too. Zimmerman claims self defense, which considering his injuries I can understand. He already thought the kid was suspicious and just got his ass kicked, he probably thought he was defending himself in the best way he could. Problem is, he brought a gun. And the victim was unarmed. AND, Zimmerman set the whole confrontation in motion. So I have little sympathy for Zimmerman.

Poor parents. What a tragedy.

[HYHYBT]

None of those are valid reasons for walking around at night.

Interesting framework behind that statement. It rests on the presumption that the pedestrian must justify his presence to your satisfaction. Why? Walking is generally legal for any or no reason. "I feel like it" is good enough, and (unless there's a local ordinance) the time does not change that. Please explain why I'm wrong on this, if you really even believe your own post.

[Andara Bledin]

Sounds like the kid gave Zimmerman quite the beat down too.

Not really. Zimmerman had a bloody nose and the back of his head was bloodied, which is consistant with him falling onto his back and striking it on something. All it takes for all of that damage is a single punch. Nothing supports any drawn-out fight at all, including the lack of reports that the later 9-1-1 calls included any reports of a confrontation; all I have found mention only "gunshots."

^-.-^