Neighbourhood Watch Kills Unarmed Black Kid

[draggar]

Great, now because of this trigger happy a-hole e might lose the right to defend ourselves in the state.

As a member of a "community watch" like program - Zimmerman acted WAY out of line. I would never confront someone I considered a threat - that is what the police are for, call them and let them deal with it. The best thing you can do is be a good witness - give a good description, what they're doing, where they are, etc..

But - now because of this the "stand your ground" law is going to be under a lot of scrutiny. The law was written for people to protect themselves (a.k.a. act in self defense) and Zimmerman didn't do that - he left his vehicle and approached Martin thus making HIM the aggressor. I don't know why Zimmerman wasn't arrested considering the statements of witnesses and I'm sure forensics will tell a different story.

His statement of "they always get away" proves that he had other intentions. What was Martin doing? Walking though a neighborhood? Just because there are people who are undesirable walking though your neighborhood sometimes doesn't mean everyone who walks though it is an undesirable type of person.

[draco664]

But - now because of this the "stand your ground" law is going to be under a lot of scrutiny. The law was written for people to protect themselves (a.k.a. act in self defense) and Zimmerman didn't do that - he left his vehicle and approached Martin thus making HIM the aggressor. I don't know why Zimmerman wasn't arrested considering the statements of witnesses and I'm sure forensics will tell a different story.

Why would the 'stand your ground' law be under scrutiny? It doesn't sound like it even has anything to do with this case.

[lupo pazzesco]

Why would the 'stand your ground' law be under scrutiny? It doesn't sound like it even has anything to do with this case.

It's a basis for what Zimmerman is arguing. Self-defense/Stand your ground. I perceived immediate danger to my life/well-being, thus I reacted with deadly force.

They had a blurb about him on the news here this morning, highlighting how the DOJ is stepping in and running their own investigation. They were definitely trying to stoke the fires of racial conflict, though (FOX News here, though, in a TX town not to terribly far from some border towns, whaddya expect?), because the spent a fair portion of the segment detailing Zimmerman's father's statements that he's hispanic, and raised in a multicultural household, and how could he EVER be prejudiced? At least they balanced it with a blurb from an interview with FL Governer asking people to remain calm, and not jump to the conclusion it was a racially motivated killing.

They did actually show a photo of Zimmerman, ironically, it looks like it's a photo from a police mugshot. Go figure.

[Andara Bledin]

It is a mug shot. From his previous arrest for violence for which he was later released.

And while the shooting was likely not racially motivated and more likely about Martin being a teen that Zimmerman didn't recognize as belonging to his neighborhood, the mis-handling of the investigation most likely was.

^-.-^

[crashhelmet]

It is a mug shot. From his previous arrest for violence for which he was later released.

And while the shooting was likely not racially motivated and more likely about Martin being a teen that Zimmerman didn't recognize as belonging to his neighborhood, the mis-handling of the investigation most likely was.

^-.-^

Oh, it is now apparently most definitely racial...

From Daily KOS

In the latest development, the department admits that its "investigators"—yes, I am putting quotation marks around that word—missed a crucial part of the recording of the phone call that George Zimmerman, the shooter, made to the police as he followed Martin around. They say they missed him muttering a racist slur, "fuckin' coons," under his breath to the police operator.

[Andara Bledin]

Actually, he most likely says "fucking punks." If you listen closely (it comes in shortly after he starts chasing Martin), you can hear the fricative at the end that is the 'k' in punks and would not be present if he said "coons." Even being generous, I can't get myself to hear a racial slur.

He absolutely goes into the situation with an axe to grind, but his bigotry is more along either age or socio-economic lines than race. It goes in with the "they always get away" line from earlier in the call.

^-.-^

[crashhelmet]

Actually, he most likely says "fucking punks." If you listen closely (it comes in shortly after he starts chasing Martin), you can hear the fricative at the end that is the 'k' in punks and would not be present if he said "coons." Even being generous, I can't get myself to hear a racial slur.

He absolutely goes into the situation with an axe to grind, but his bigotry is more along either age or socio-economic lines than race. It goes in with the "they always get away" line from earlier in the call.

^-.-^

When I listen to it, I hear the k sound right before the OOH sound. It sounds like he says "coons" to me.

[DrFaroohk]

It's too ambiguous to tell either way what he's really saying. I hear "fucking cunts". This is one of those things where he probably did say coons, but I don't think it's fair of anyone to string him up just because of what we think he might said.

[draggar]

Why would the 'stand your ground' law be under scrutiny? It doesn't sound like it even has anything to do with this case.

It's a basis for what Zimmerman is arguing. Self-defense/Stand your ground. I perceived immediate danger to my life/well-being, thus I reacted with deadly force.

Yep but the law doesn't even apply one bit in this situation. I'm assuming Zimmerman had a concealed weapons permit (CWP) and the required gun safety course covers a lot of the law. When I took the course this is how it was explained:

1) You have to have a LEGITIMATE fear for your life. A stranger walking though your neighborhood is not one. Someone yelling at you is not one. Someone running up to you in a threatening manner is.

Did Zimmerman have a legitimate fear for his life? Who knows. According to witnesses they were both in the street when the shooting happened but Martin did tell his GF that someone was following him and IMO he would have that concern.

Despite the dispatcher's request to stay in his vehicle Zimmerman DID NOT. He followed Martin and got out of his vehicle.

2) It has to be in your home or your business (work). Unless your vehicle is part of your job (i.e. making house calls, realtor) it is not considered either (explained below).

None of these points are part of the case - Zimmerman was in his personal vehicle for a neighborhood watch which isn't work nor is it his residence.

3) Either you have no way to flee or your family has no way to flee. If someone busts into my house and I am by the back door the preferred (according to the law) action for me is to run out the back door. BUT - if my wife is upstairs in bed then I CAN take advantage of SYG since she is unprotected and has no escape.

Zimmerman, if we was in fear for his life, had PLENTY of opportunities to flee either speed away in his vehicle or run away.

4) You CANNOT claim SYG if the other person is "fleeing" (according to the state - fleeing is the act of trying to get out of danger). If someone breaks into my house and I yell "GET OUT I HAVE A GUN" and they run out the door I cannot use SYG.

If Martin is walking away from Zimmerman's then he is NOT a threat and, even though slowly, could be considered fleeting (even though he's just trying to get home).

From what it seems if anyone had the right to take advantage of SYG it was Martin - Zimmerman followed him, got out of his vehicle, and had a confrontation with Martin then pulled out the weapon and fired it.

[KnitShoni]

Actually, he most likely says "fucking punks." If you listen closely (it comes in shortly after he starts chasing Martin), you can hear the fricative at the end that is the 'k' in punks and would not be present if he said "coons." Even being generous, I can't get myself to hear a racial slur.

He absolutely goes into the situation with an axe to grind, but his bigotry is more along either age or socio-economic lines than race. It goes in with the "they always get away" line from earlier in the call.

^-.-^

Thing is, his history tends to make people think it is. Neighbors and records of past call state he has a history of targeting young, Black males as suspicious.

[HYHYBT]

Does anybody still use "coon" that way? I've never even once heard the word except either as a shortened form of "raccoon," the animal, or someone explaining or referring to its racist use, never anyone actually using it.

[KnitShoni]

Does anybody still use "coon" that way? I've never even once heard the word except either as a shortened form of "raccoon," the animal, or someone explaining or referring to its racist use, never anyone actually using it.

Yes, actually, a lot of people do still use it that way.

[Hyena Dandy]

Actually, he most likely says "fucking punks." If you listen closely (it comes in shortly after he starts chasing Martin), you can hear the fricative at the end that is the 'k' in punks and would not be present if he said "coons." Even being generous, I can't get myself to hear a racial slur.

He absolutely goes into the situation with an axe to grind, but his bigotry is more along either age or socio-economic lines than race. It goes in with the "they always get away" line from earlier in the call.

Yeah, I hear more 'punks' than 'coons' as well. I guess really it's that it's a borderline and all you hear is an 'uhn' which could go 'punk' or 'coon'. But I'm pretty sure there was a K there.

Still, it's not like age/social conflict would be any more laudable than racial.

[ngc_7331]

It sounds a lot like coons to me, but it's so low that it's hard to tell exactly what he's saying. Whatever it is, he sure as hell wasn't calling him a nice kid.

[Boozy]

A court stenographer would likely transcribe that as "inaudible".

Given the good evidence we have that Zimmerman's actions were racist, I think people are hearing "coon" because our brains expect it. It could be anything, really.