Neighbourhood Watch Kills Unarmed Black Kid

[Jaden]

I honestly cannot even articulate how fucking angry that verdict makes me. It's absolutely sickening.

[Gravekeeper]

Didn't this case have a really weird jury make up?

[Nekojin]

6 jurors, all female, yes.

[Racket_Man]

I smell BIG Wrongfull Death Civil lawsuit.

Hey it worked for Ronald Goldman's parents.

[EricKei]

And because of the weakness of their case, the jury correctly found that it wasn't proven.

This. To the best of my recollection, the Sheriff (or someone else in power there) originally either did not want to arrest Zimmerman, or just not prosecute him because, in his opinion, there was no way the amount of evidence they had would have been enough to convict him. Looks like he was right. NOTE -- He didn't say "I don't think he did it," he said "I don't think he will be convicted." Big difference.

I smell BIG Wrongfull Death Civil lawsuit.

Hey it worked for Ronald Goldman's parents.

It can also be pursued in Federal court. Two of the cops in the Rodney King kerfluffle did some time because of that, for "violating King's civil rights."

[Greenday]

This has nothing to do with prosecution bowing to public outrage.

Please. The only reason Zimmerman was arrested and tried was because of bowing to public pressure. The prosecution and police didn't want to waste their time because they knew a guilty verdict was never going to happen. No one saw who started the fight so it was going to be impossible to convince a jury that it was 100% definitely Zimmerman who started it. But then we started to hear accusations of racism and bam! Zimmerman gets arrested and there is a trial.

Didn't this case have a really weird jury make up?

It was six women. Five women were white. One woman was Hispanic. If I can recall correctly from what I saw on CNN earlier this week, five of those women were mothers.

[Andara Bledin]

The prosecution and police didn't want to waste their time because they knew a guilty verdict was never going to happen.

Except that's not what happened. Before they even had any idea of who knew what, they chose not to even arrest him. Considering that the police department in question has a reported issue with racism, it's likely that played a part.

If they had arrested him that first night and then failed to indict for lack of enough evidence for a likelihood of conviction, there's a good chance most of the country never would have heard of the incident at all. The fact that he was arrested should have been the case from the start. The trial itself could be considered bowing to public outrage, but by that point they'd fuck it up so bad, they had no choice.

[Nekojin]

Anywhere else in the country, this could have been a conviction. By standard law (used in most of the country and the Federal system), once the killing has been established and/or confessed to, the burden of proof shifts to the defendant to prove that the killing was justified. In Florida, that's turned on its head - the defendant only merely has to assert that it was self-defense, and the burden of proof that it wasn't self-defense gets dumped back on the prosecution's shoulders.

The verdict was sound by the laws being used. I don't like it, but that's the way it falls.

One of our friends mentioned some minor rioting in Oakland, CA (organized by Occupy Oakland) after the verdict was read - two helicopters in the air, a hundred or so people "marching," plenty of vandalism, and especially a vandalized police car. Were there any other outbreaks of violence? I haven't heard of any.

[Ginger Tea]

I know being upset about this is a national issue, but seeing as the state of California is the opposite end of the country to Florida any non peaceful protests don't help matters about changing state laws to be more in line with the rest of the nation.

It's like Scotland trashing itself over something happening in Italy. Scotland could have every right to be pissed about whatever Italy did, but how is trashing Scotland going to make Italy see the error?

Police in one state should not be held accountable for the in/actions of another, especially one that isn't even bordering it.

[Nekojin]

I know being upset about this is a national issue, but seeing as the state of California is the opposite end of the country to Florida any non peaceful protests don't help matters about changing state laws to be more in line with the rest of the nation.

It's like Scotland trashing itself over something happening in Italy. Scotland could have every right to be pissed about whatever Italy did, but how is trashing Scotland going to make Italy see the error?

Police in one state should not be held accountable for the in/actions of another, especially one that isn't even bordering it.

I don't disagree. I live in California, and I think that the rioting was more opportunistic neo-anarchic destruction using Zimmerman as a cover. Were there people there who genuinely wanted to make themselves be heard? No doubt. But most of what people heard was smashing glass, not anything useful.

[Panacea]

This trial pains me. I believe he truly got away with murder, but seeing as my life revolves around forensics, I also believe the jury got it right based on what was presented. There just wasn't any proof to say Zimmerman started the fight. He wasn't doing anything illegal by following Martin. No one saw who started the fight. The only witnesses saw the end of the fight which doesn't help solve the mystery of who started the fight.

It bothers me that no one seemed to point out that Martin could have reasonably claimed a SYG defense as well: he had no idea who was following him on a dark, rainy night.

Didn't this case have a really weird jury make up?

Jury makeup varies from state to state. Most states use 12 man juries. Florida only requires 12 if it is a capital case.

I was suprised that there were no men and no blacks on the jury.

[Andara Bledin]

It bothers me that no one seemed to point out that Martin could have reasonably claimed a SYG defense as well: he had no idea who was following him on a dark, rainy night.

Unfortunately, as he's dead and in no way a defendant, whether he could have used the SYG law as a defense is utterly irrelevant to the case against Zimmerman.

[s_stabeler]

ywha, to me this is an issue of the wording of Florida's Stand Your Ground law. ( there aqre actualyl two ways you can change the law to mean Zimmerman would have been convicted: 1) shift the burden of proof onot the defense to prove it was self-defense or 2) duty of safe retreat. (basicaly, if you can resolve the sdirtuation by running away, you have to. There is an exception for your own property)

[Panacea]

Unfortunately, as he's dead and in no way a defendant, whether he could have used the SYG law as a defense is utterly irrelevant to the case against Zimmerman.

I think it quite relevant if Martin was defending himself from Zimmerman when he was shot and killed. Since we only have Zimmerman's word for what happened, proving it gets much harder, though.

[EricKei]

As for the talk of riots -- a number of which were openly planned in advance, I don't know how many have actually taken place (I am hoping very few) -- it occurs to me that some of them would have taken place no matter what the verdict. Some people, as they say, just wanna watch the world burn, so any excuse will do. Hell, people rioted "in celebration" after the Chicago Bulls WON the NBA championship back in the 90's, did they not? How likely is it that those same groups of rioters would have done it anyway if they lost, because they were "angry at being let down" ...?