Canada denies South Korean family permanent residence

[IDrinkaRum]

because their 12-year-old son has Autism.

The denial is based on:

...potentially excessive costs to health care and social services to meet his 12-year-old autistic son’s needs

If Canada does not allow them to stay and become permanent residents, the family is going to have to go back to South Korea.

The family moved to Canada in 2003 when the son was 3 years old. He was then diagnosed with Autism within 3 years.

From the on-line petition that has been set up:

If the family were sent back to South Korea, Taehoon may face intolerance and discrimination on account of his disability. He will have difficulty adjusting to the Korean society and school system, because he grew up in Canada since he was 3 years old. Prejudices against people with disabilities will likely mean greater limitations and fewer opportunities for Taehoon in South Korea.

Link to the petition to sign in case anyone wants to

[Ree]

While I feel very bad for that family, I understand the reasoning behind the decision.

Canada has socialized medicine, which is a big reason that many people do choose to emigrate here.

Yes, the family would be employed and their taxes would be going toward these services, and they would be contributing to society as well, but the fact is, they have a child with special needs requiring a great deal of medical care.

I'm sorry if I sound uncaring, but I know many Canadian-born people who are already on waiting lists for the type of medical services this child would require, because the high demand outweighs the spaces available, and the funding is not always available.
Immigrants often get moved to the head of the line for those services, simply because Canada does normally have such a generous immigration policy. (Yes, I know that's not always the case, but it does happen.)

As I said, I do sympathize with the family, but it would be the same if the kid had any other illness or disorder, and it is not a prejudice against autism.

[Andara Bledin]

As Ree said, it's a matter of prioritization of resources. All else being equal, another family without a special needs child will be more valuable over the long term.

It sucks that it has to be a consideration, but until we have the resources to take care of everybody on the planet, some people are going to be left out, and it just makes sense to give preference to those who will be the least drain on the system.

^-.-^

[Boozy]

I'm sorry if I sound uncaring, but I know many Canadian-born people who are already on waiting lists for the type of medical services this child would require, because the high demand outweighs the spaces available, and the funding is not always available.

You don't sound uncaring, just pragmatic. There is a a long waiting list for many of the services that autistic children require, and there are many Canadians (citizens by birth or immigrants) already on that list.

Incidentally, the problem here is not likely to be health care costs or wait times. Those tend to be fairly reasonable. It's the social services that add up. The boy is only 12 years old and has another 5 years of schooling left. He needs an educational assistant at a cost of $35,000 a year. And not every autistic child is lucky enough to get an assistant. My friend's son has been waiting for one to become available for several years now.

[Ree]

Incidentally, the problem here is not likely to be health care costs or wait times. Those tend to be fairly reasonable. It's the social services that add up.

Yes, that's a more accurate explanation.

I was lumping all of it under "medical" but, yes, it's the social services involved in the child's care, (also funded by the taxpayers), that will add up, and the social services system is also overburdened.

(My daughter waited close to a year for a consultation with a speech therapist for my granddaughter. She started developing a stutter around November of 2010. My daughter mentioned it to her doctor at that time, and she finally got her appointment in September 2011.)

As for health care costs and wait times being fairly reasonable, though, I assume you mean as it refers to the treatment of an autistic child, because I do know many people on long waiting lists for medical services of one type or another.

I know that I needed an MRI last year, and, while it was still funded through my provincial health care, I had to go to a "private" facility rather than a hospital or clinic. There was a month wait for my appointment. (That's not long, but there is always the "what if?" aspect of waiting. "What if they say it's cancer and it could have been treated if they caught it sooner?") Had I been put on the list to get the test done at a publicly funded facility, my wait time would have been much longer - up to 6 months or more.

When it was decided that I would require physiotherapy. once again, rather than be put on a waiting list of 6 months or more at the local hospital, where my provincial health care would pay, my doctor suggested I go to a private clinic and pay out of pocket for the portion that wasn't covered by my employer's group health coverage.
It got to the point where I had reached my coverage limit and could no longer afford it, so I stopped going.

To get a sleep apnea test done, there was over a year of waiting.

My doctor requisitioned a mammogram for me in July, 2008. I called the local hospital and was told they were not currently accepting any appointments for mammograms until after the fall, and they suggested I go to a private clinic if it was an emergency.

So, even if the bulk of this boy's care will not necessarily be "medical" there will be a portion of it that is, and that will also be a drain on the system.

[Aethian]

What about the fact for the past 9 years he's been living as a Canadian and will now be thrown into a culture he may not understand?

[IDrinkaRum]

I get outside services for my daughter. I get Occupational Therapy, Speech Therapy, and every 6 months or so, Listening Therapy.

I pay a $20 co-pay for the occupational and speech therapies. My medical insurance gives me 75 visits per year of occupational, physical, and speech therapies. So technically, I 'only' get 25 visits per therapy per year. I pay for the listening therapies out-of-pocket at $100 every 2 weeks (for 12 weeks). I take her to outside servies such as these because she gets 120 hours of speech a month in school (that's 30 minutes a week), and she gets absolutely no occupational therapy in school. (The county's criteria is really ridiculous - since she can hold a pencil properly, she doesn't need OT in school).

When I make an appointment for my daughter's specialists, I do go with the ones who accept insurance, however, the wait lists are LONG. My daughter just saw her developmental pediatrician in February of this year. She wanted to see us back in the May/June time frame. The first available appointment we got was September 4. I called back and asked to be put on the cancellation list also (if someone cancels an appointment, they go down the cancellation list to offer that open appointment to someone else). I could go to another developmental pediatrician (actually, I was considering going to the one who originally diagnosed my daughter. He's in private practice now, takes absolutely NO INSURANCE, and charges $250 per visit). Why do I go with the in-service providers first? Because then I don't have to deal with the insurance company. I just pay whatever they don't pay from the visit.

If my daughter was more severely disabled, or needed a personal aide of sorts, I could request one from the county we live in. I might have to do some fighting, but if her doctors, therapists, and even her teachers thought she'd need one, the school, after some foot dragging would get her one.

Also, as my daughter is disabled, I can get Social Security Income for her ($XX amount per month until she's 18, and then she has to fill out paperwork once she's considered an adult). If I do it for her when she's underaged, she'll be automatically enrolled in Medicare(? - the state run medical). When she's an adult she'll be automatically enrolled into Medicaid (? - the federal government run medical - I might have gotten the confused with each other). I'm thinking of getting her some SSI right now so that can help pay for the co-pays that come up.

As for me getting appointments? I've found no matter what specialist I need, I have a relatively easy time getting an appointment. And I'm talking Cardiologists, Endocrinologists, Pulminologists, General Practitioners, etc. I got an MRI about 2 years ago (give or take), and I got an appointment in a little 4 weeks from the day I called in to make the appointment. But I went to a facility known for doing these type of tests and people are always being referred there to have them done. There's a place down the street from my house who does regular x-rays, ultrasounds, etc., that I can do if my GP (General Practitioner) orders them.

And if Canada is going to start denying families permanent residency based on their children's disabilities, where will it end? Will it next be people who smoke? That causes health problems too. And a strain on medical expenses. Cancer, emphysema, other breathing and health problems. Alcoholics? (Which also, if the alcoholic in question was a woman who gave birth to a child with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, that would add strain to the medical community).

As far as I know, America doesn't look into a child's disability to deny a family permanent residency within its borders. And this is the country with the "broken" healthcare system.

[KnitShoni]

What about the fact for the past 9 years he's been living as a Canadian and will now be thrown into a culture he may not understand?

Not to mention...who has been paying for his care for the last nine years?

[Ree]

As far as I know, America doesn't look into a child's disability to deny a family permanent residency within its borders. And this is the country with the "broken" healthcare system.

But that's the thing.

Canada has all of those programs funded by their health care system, so yes, that is going to be a factor.

It may seem uncaring and discriminatory, but the bottom line really is money, as crass as that sounds.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

And if Canada is going to start denying families permanent residency based on their children's disabilities, where will it end? Will it next be people who smoke? That causes health problems too. And a strain on medical expenses. Cancer, emphysema, other breathing and health problems. Alcoholics? (Which also, if the alcoholic in question was a woman who gave birth to a child with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, that would add strain to the medical community).

As far as I know, America doesn't look into a child's disability to deny a family permanent residency within its borders. And this is the country with the "broken" healthcare system.

I am a born and bred, red and white Canadian who has been living in America since 2008. Having had experiences in BOTH health care systems I still prefer the Canadian system.

It's great that you can get those services for your daughter. But there's one important reason for that: You have medical insurance and, based on what you described, decent insurance at that.

Many, MANY people in this country have inadequate insurance or NO insurance at all.

I can't tell you how much it sucks to have to let problems go unaddressed because you can't afford the treatment at the moment. I have a lingering back issue that's been bothering me for awhile and although I do have medical insurance, it would still cost me a fair amount to get it treated (I looked into it) and I just don't have it right now. In Canada I may have to wait a bit longer, but I wouldn't be stuck with a gigantic bill at the end.

I just can't describe how nice it was to be able to go to an ER as a broke college student with chest pains, see a doctor, get chest X-rays AND an EKG and NOT have to pay anything out of pocket at the end of it.

Yes, we "pay" for our healthcare system in the form of higher taxes, but from where I sit, it's money well spent.

I FULLY agree the American system is excellent...for those who can afford it. For those who can't, it can be anything from a minor inconvenience to a major nightmare.

Having said all that, let me state for the record I believe my country (Canada) should allow this child to stay. I understand the argument as far as social services go, but we Canadians have a reputation for being friendly and welcoming. I find it hard to believe that this one child would add so much additional strain to the system that the only option is to send her and her parents back to where they came from.

[Ree]

I find it hard to believe that this one child would add so much additional strain to the system that the only option is to send her and her parents back to where they came from.

They could review it on a case by case basis, but how can they justify making exceptions for one while refusing another?

[KitterCat]

He was admitted first as a student and then stayed on work permits. Son Taehoon was three when the west Hamilton family came to Canada in 2003. He was diagnosed with autism within three years.

So lets see the kid was 6 when he was finally diagnosed. His parents came to the country legally kept staying on with work permits and since his Dads an IT help assistant administrator so I‘m guessing he applied for a permanent residency and then citizanship. So he’s been paying for his family to be there. Paying Canadian taxes, putting into the system/government of the country that he’s made a home for his family in for 9 years.

Right now everyone seems to be focusing in on that fact that it is cost effective for the child to be kicked out due to medical issues. I think people are forgetting that it took 3 years before the child was even diagnosed. So it wasn’t as if the family came to the country knowing their son had a problem and tried swindle this poor country into taking the child. Then Canada decided to wait another 6 years before denying residency. Yah cry me a freaking river about future health care costs when your country seems to have no problems taking an immigrants taxes and fees to stay in the country legally, when your suppose to have such a great funded health and social services programs.

While I do not support illegal immigrants, this family has not gone to Canada illegally. They’ve followed the book in how to stay in their new country. They have had the misfortune for a family member to found disabled and are now being punished for something they have no control over. What would happen if instead of 9 years it was 20 years and then something was found? When would it be morally right for the government to say “you cost to much for us to keep you here, get out.” Yes I’ll be the first one to say it is the cost effective way to keep down a country’s costs, it is not the morally right. *


*It looks like they took a page out of a huge badly run corporations handbook on how to make money while screwing with the buyer.

**Yes I will be the first to admit that the US isn’t doing much better when it comes to health care costs. Both systems have various flaws to them. Heck most governments I think cant balance their books if a gun was held to their figurative heads.

***I may not be wording this post well. Two kids of my own keep me pretty busy so time is always limited on what I can post.

[Andara Bledin]

I find it hard to believe that this one child would add so much additional strain to the system that the only option is to send her and her parents back to where they came from.

But what about every child that would get pushed back by making an allowance for this one? For everybody that you help, you have to not help someone else. In this case, the cost of helping one sick child could be as much as helping ten not-sick children. Who is going to champion them?

What would happen if instead of 9 years it was 20 years and then something was found?

It was found within whatever grace period or similar Canada has for their immigration situation.

If it had not been discovered until after the family had gained citizenship, it would have been handled through the Canadian medical system just as it is for every other Canadian citizen.

^-.-^

[fireheart17]

But what about every child that would get pushed back by making an allowance for this one? For everybody that you help, you have to not help someone else. In this case, the cost of helping one sick child could be as much as helping ten not-sick children. Who is going to champion them?

Aren't most waiting lists also allocated on NEED anyway? So I would bet that if there was a waiting list and South Korean kiddo was say, 10th on the list, if a Canadian kid had a more severe case of autism, he would be bumped further up and South Korean kiddo would be knocked down a few to maybe 15th.

There's a similar story going on down here, except that the family is Filipino, the husband has been working as a doctor (and came over on a program for just that purpose) and the kid is a bit older. Except in this case, they seem to label autism as a "health risk" -.-. My argument sort of went along the lines of "so we're quite happy to help someone who's un-necessary boob implant popped, but not happy to help a kid with autism?"