Which discrimination -ism is still alive and well?

[Ginger Tea]

Re race, I don't find black women attractive regardless of how light or dark they are, it's not a case of "I'd bang her if she was lighter."* I just don't get any reactions down there same with blondes, that's a great way to get me to not fancy you, dye your hair blonde and in my eyes you might as well not exist in the gene pool.

I don't see it as racist to not fancy someone, if you have to force yourself to get an erection, then it's just not a good starting point for an intimate relationship.
friendship however, black brown green blue pink, who gives a fuck, if I like someone as a friend I don't care enough about what they look like just what they act like.

Niki Minaj when she had the pink wig, leather and freddie claw in the video to "My chick bad" she did pique some interest, but not enough.

*If for example someone photoshopped someone into a pale skinned readhead and I didn't know that they did do it, and I found this black woman hot now she's a read head white girl, well that's a bit greyer.

[Gravekeeper]

BSo, you meet someone, you get along great, you fall in love, and then meet their parents... and bam! You find they're Asian... what do you do now??

Cept thats not what anyone was talking about. Seeing as we were clearly speaking about physical attraction. If you haven't noticed, people from different races tend to look different. You can't call racism on someone if Asian girls just don't do it for them. Again, everyone in the world does not have a default right to have my dick in them. It is not racism, ageism, etc for me to say no, sorry, I don't want to put my dick in you.

You can't shame someone into a relationship by trying to make like its discrimination.

I disagree! I have a liking of heavy metal. I'm also single. I know that there aren't a lot of girls in my area into it. So, I happen to find a metal site that caters to the local scene. Are you suggesting I shouldn't try to pick up? or to arrange a date through it?? Or, that to do so would be 'creepy'??? As I said, I disagree!

Did you even read what I said?

Thanks BK - I agree! Yes, objecting to an age difference IS blatant 'ageism'! Take my previous example - you have NO idea how old someone is, yet you find everything about them is fantastic for you... then you find out their age - sorry, but now you're too old for me? That's basic crap!!!

No. It's. Not. Age is an important factor in a relationship. It can denote everything from maturity to financial stability to health to life expectency. Maybe they want someone around the same level of life experience as them. Maybe they want someone whose not going to be a senior 10-20 years before they are. Maybe they don't want to spend the last 20 years of their life alone because you died first. There are several valid, important factors in a relationship when it comes to age.

You don't have a right to be with whomever the hell you want just because you want too. That's their decision and frankly I find you're continued ranting about it and trying to argue that you're somehow a victim here because a girl said no to be rather pathetic.

Get over yourself.

[Duelist925]

But... choosing to not go out with someone purely because 'they're Asian' IS discrimination... "I don't like Asians" is pretty clear-cut. And, that's different from saying "I don't like XYZ features". For example, there are many people around the world that fall into a particular ethnicity, but you wouldn't know it from their looks... So, you meet someone, you get along great, you fall in love, and then meet their parents... and bam! You find they're Asian... what do you do now??

There is a difference between "Asians do not turn me on" and "I hate asians"

One is racist. The other is not.

Not being attracted to someone due to race, age, or sex does not equal racism, ageism, or genderism. Complaining about that is like complaining about a woman not dating you because she gay.

Similarly, you meet someone. In your eyes, you get attracted to them, hang out, like each other, have a great time, and you're starting to think something might happen between you... then, you find out their age - OMG They're ancient!!!! Do you just dump them on the spot???

Depends on entirely too many variables to answer--how much older are they, what are both parties looking for out of the relationship, if there are issues then can they be compromised and worked through, what ABOUT their age causes issues, if anything (ie, ability to have children, for instance)

So, what's wrong with just taking someone as they are?

Abolutely nothing. As long as what "they are" is something you're attracted to in the first place.

I disagree! I have a liking of heavy metal. I'm also single. I know that there aren't a lot of girls in my area into it. So, I happen to find a metal site that caters to the local scene. Are you suggesting I shouldn't try to pick up? or to arrange a date through it?? Or, that to do so would be 'creepy'??? As I said, I disagree!

Not in the slightest, because the metal scene is not something primarily dominated by only younger people. Therefore this example has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. To arrange a date through a metal site isn't creepy in the slightest, as long as you're not there exclusively to pick up much younger girls. (and there is a difference between doing so Just to pick up younger girls, and picking up a younger girl as a side effect)

Thanks BK - I agree! Yes, objecting to an age difference IS blatant 'ageism'! Take my previous example - you have NO idea how old someone is, yet you find everything about them is fantastic for you... then you find out their age - sorry, but now you're too old for me? That's basic crap!!!

There are a ton of reasons that age can play into a relationship whereas race cannot.

As Gk mentioned, similar life experience is a factor. As is the thought of one being a senior citizen decades before the other.

Not to mention the wealth of physical and mental health issues that can affect those who are older as they advance in age--dating someone twenty years older than you is well and good when your twenty, and their thirty five or fourty. When your fourty, and their sixty, though, there are questions of physical well being, (ranging from simple lack of physical stamina, wether for sex or for simple physical activities such as a walk with their partner), or incontinence as well as the onset of mental issues such as alzheimers, dementia, and other neurological disorders that can strike the elderly.


Even assuming a lesser age gap, there still the life experience issue, as well as the fact that different generations of people literally think in different ways, as well as, as I mentioned before, the ability to bear children which could be a very big one--there are many people for whom that would end a relationship. And that is not ageism.

Also, finding some unattractive because of physical evidence of their age is not ageism. Its not any ism. Because finding someone unattractive is not the same thing as discrimination.

And, yeah, I will play a 'race' car... I work in China in the ESL field. There are piles of stories of native (and non-native) English speakers who apply for jobs here, fly through the interview, have great credentials etc... and then lose the job at the last second because they don't look caucasian enouggh! Regardless of their nationality and speaking ability. If this is blatant racism (which it is), then doing the same based on a number is blatant ageism!

That example has nothing to do with the topic at hand, which despite what you think, is not "ageism".

Not hiring someone based on their age is generally a bad thing, unless the job at hand requires some skill or trait that the eldery lack, such as physical strength of maneuverability.

And just what, precisely, is NOT ageist about that?? If I'm 40, I'm ONLY ALLOWED to date someone from 27 years old??? Anything younger would be... creepy? Seriously, there are 50 year olds with less maturity than some 23 year olds I know!

[/quote]

It's an unwritten rule, and as Pirate of the Caribbean taught us, rules are more guidelines than anything else.

Its a rule of thumb in any case--A 26 year old probably wouldn't be creepy. A 19 or 20 year old probably would be creepy, because that large of an age difference can lead to a number of disturbing questions.

Why is she dating him? For his money, for drugs or booze, to rebel, does he have some hold over her?

Why is he dating her? Midlife crisis, is he one of those creepers who only goes after younger girls, did he just never grow up?

[Slytovhand]

ok, there's a few things to reply to...

Firstly, let's go back to GingerTea's post that I quoted:
[quote]"Originally Posted by Ginger Tea View Post
I guess a fair few adult males could be seen as creepy for being on a forum for a band that is favoured by a more late teen mid twenty audience, but if they like the music and perhaps it reminds them of music from their youth, then perhaps they are there cos they like the music and are not there to try and pull younger women..[quote]

It could be interpreted that it was meant as 'older guy has NO interest in the music, and only there for the younger girls' (I note that it's only guys doing this...), OR it could be 'older guy has SOME interest in the music AND wants to pick up'. Apparently, the former is bad (sure, I agree with that), AND SO IS THE SECOND. I disagree with this - not by the age (as it seems some do... ), but - if you have a friend who is lamenting their singleness, what do you tell them? "Well, you need to 'get out more - find people who are interested in the same things you are'". My particular music tastes are quite eclectic, and the way music is going (as well as society), there is much more mixing of age-groups. (If, and ONLY if, the person has NO interest in the forum topic itself... if there IS some interest, I don't have a great issue with it (as long as the person is not harrassing others in doing so).

So, what's the relevantly significant difference between joining an online forum to find someone, and (say) going to a supermarket, or bowling alley, or virtually any other place to meet people you may be interested in? Remember: the word used was 'creepy'!!!


Siead - I wasn't against the idea of being attracted to A, but not B. As long as B is actually something that is relevant. As I said in my scenario many times - you've been getting along fantastically with someone for a while, you're falling in love with them. They are everything you've ever wanted - then you find out their age... dump them, or continue? (No, I'm not talking about marriage or other form of permanency - different kettle of fish. You can be madly in love with anyone of any age, and still not want that for various reasons (eg, they're too lazy, don't have a good job, etc etc).

Being attracted to someone, and THEN saying "They're too old" IS ageism (if it's only about attraction - NOT as a long-term consideration).

And, no, it's not (IMHO) racism if Asians just don't do it for you... but, if a particular nationality doesn't do it for you... yeah, I think so! (eg, "Ooh, cute Asian person - where are you from?" "Japan". "Oh, you suck, I hate you, get lost creep".) Hence my argument - "Ooh, cute guy. You're nice. How old are you". "35". "Ewww, too old - get away from me, creep!"

To put it in really simplistic terms, if someone is ok in your eyes (attracted to, or whatever), and you can feel that way WITHOUT knowing a particular, not obvious, fact about the person, AND THEN you are not attracted to them after you DO know that fact... yes, it's a form of -ism.


I'm not talking about long-term considerations (ie marriage or children), mostly because we haven't even gotten to that yet. Different topic. Unless, of course, people here only think that dating or sleeping with someone is only for the purpose of heading towards those things. IF the person consciously decided those things, then yeah, I have no issue. BUT, when it's an automatic response, then I choose to bitch about it! (speaking of which - people have a right to go into people's work, and make a dick-wad of themselves. Or to be a lousy friend, or a lousy relative, or have lousy politicians.... I do believe this is a forum for bitching about it.. what makes mine any different?? I seem to recall lots of posts about people from a place up in Canada. And, I'm actually ranting about a topic, not a one-off situation - but thanks for thinking I'm pathetic for choosing to continue it! ).

It's an unwritten rule, and as Pirate of the Caribbean taught us, rules are more guidelines than anything else.

Its a rule of thumb in any case--A 26 year old probably wouldn't be creepy. A 19 or 20 year old probably would be creepy, because that large of an age difference can lead to a number of disturbing questions.

Why is she dating him? For his money, for drugs or booze, to rebel, does he have some hold over her?

Why is he dating her? Midlife crisis, is he one of those creepers who only goes after younger girls, did he just never grow up?

Precisely the sort of thing I'm talking about!!!!

Why would it be 'creepy'? And, what 'disturbing' questions?? Why can he not just be the sort of guy she likes - he's mature, intelligent, attractive, independent, responsible and fun... does it NEED to be any other reason?

Maybe she is exactly the sort of person he's looking for... whatever that may be.

This quote is precisely the reason for this entire thread! Let's pre-judge someone based solely on a number!!!

[Duelist925]

[QUOTE=Slytovhand;114117]ok, there's a few things to reply to...

Firstly, let's go back to GingerTea's post that I quoted:
[quote]"Originally Posted by Ginger Tea View Post
I guess a fair few adult males could be seen as creepy for being on a forum for a band that is favoured by a more late teen mid twenty audience, but if they like the music and perhaps it reminds them of music from their youth, then perhaps they are there cos they like the music and are not there to try and pull younger women..

It could be interpreted that it was meant as 'older guy has NO interest in the music, and only there for the younger girls' (I note that it's only guys doing this...), OR it could be 'older guy has SOME interest in the music AND wants to pick up'. Apparently, the former is bad (sure, I agree with that), AND SO IS THE SECOND. I disagree with this - not by the age (as it seems some do... ), but - if you have a friend who is lamenting their singleness, what do you tell them? "Well, you need to 'get out more - find people who are interested in the same things you are'". My particular music tastes are quite eclectic, and the way music is going (as well as society), there is much more mixing of age-groups. (If, and ONLY if, the person has NO interest in the forum topic itself... if there IS some interest, I don't have a great issue with it (as long as the person is not harrassing others in doing so).

This largely has nothing to do with topic at hand, but for the bit that does: going to a forum for a music style because you like the music and want to find women within is is perfectly fine. Age only factors into it on a case by case basis,or if the style is predominantly popular with a much younger crowd, ala justin bieber.

So, what's the relevantly significant difference between joining an online forum to find someone, and (say) going to a supermarket, or bowling alley, or virtually any other place to meet people you may be interested in? Remember: the word used was 'creepy'!!!

Absolutely no difference. The term "creepy" Was not applied to going online to find dates. It was applied to datign someone far outside of ones age range. Which can be creepy for a number of reasons that have been touched on by many people in this thread, but is not inherently wrong. It is, however, tricky at best.

Siead - I wasn't against the idea of being attracted to A, but not B. As long as B is actually something that is relevant. As I said in my scenario many times - you've been getting along fantastically with someone for a while, you're falling in love with them. They are everything you've ever wanted - then you find out their age... dump them, or continue? (No, I'm not talking about marriage or other form of permanency - different kettle of fish. You can be madly in love with anyone of any age, and still not want that for various reasons (eg, they're too lazy, don't have a good job, etc etc).

I pointed out several reasos why age might factor into such a situation. And please define "permanency"--far as Im concerned, if it's not a fuckbuddy or friends with benefits, if its an actual relationship, there is the possibility of the relationship becoming permanent in a number of ways.

But, as I said, I pointed out several reasons why, as did others, ranging from possibility of children becoming nil, to simply being squicked out because the pther party will be in a nursing home ten-twenty years before you are, to sheer differences in life experience driving a wedge into the relationship.

And again, sometimes age is simply a turnoff, like a bad habit, yellow or crooked teeth, or the wrong haircolor. I find it entirely possible top be attracted to a fourty year old woman--but I cant entertain thoughts of entering a relationship with one.

Being attracted to someone, and THEN saying "They're too old" IS ageism (if it's only about attraction - NOT as a long-term consideration).

No. It isn't. Age is a variable for attraction just the same as any physical feature. Not to mention, attraction is almost ways uncontrollable. Majority cannot help being attracted to a certain body type, or unattracted to, yes, a certain age difference.

It is not ageism.

And, no, it's not (IMHO) racism if Asians just don't do it for you... but, if a particular nationality doesn't do it for you... yeah, I think so! (eg, "Ooh, cute Asian person - where are you from?" "Japan". "Oh, you suck, I hate you, get lost creep".) Hence my argument - "Ooh, cute guy. You're nice. How old are you". "35". "Ewww, too old - get away from me, creep!"

Not necessarily--there are as many subtle variations in the asian races as there are amongst, say, Anyone else. Not liking the japanese type is much like not liking the nordic type for caucasions. It simply takes familiarity with the race overall in question to actually see the physical differences.

But such a person would not need to ask the asien person their nationality in the first place.

To put it in really simplistic terms, if someone is ok in your eyes (attracted to, or whatever), and you can feel that way WITHOUT knowing a particular, not obvious, fact about the person, AND THEN you are not attracted to them after you DO know that fact... yes, it's a form of -ism.

That depends entirely on the fact. I can be incredibly attracted to a girl, then Bam shes, say, a massive fundie, or an extreme right winger. Or a peta NUT. Or just plain old racist herself. Not being attracted to her is not an "ism" anymore than not being attracted to someone because of age is an "ism". Because attraction is more than physical, even for guys. -_- The mental half plays well into it as well.

I'm not talking about long-term considerations (ie marriage or children), mostly because we haven't even gotten to that yet. Different topic. Unless, of course, people here only think that dating or sleeping with someone is only for the purpose of heading towards those things. IF the person consciously decided those things, then yeah, I have no issue. BUT, when it's an automatic response, then I choose to bitch about it! (speaking of which - people have a right to go into people's work, and make a dick-wad of themselves. Or to be a lousy friend, or a lousy relative, or have lousy politicians.... I do believe this is a forum for bitching about it.. what makes mine any different?? I seem to recall lots of posts about people from a place up in Canada. And, I'm actually ranting about a topic, not a one-off situation - but thanks for thinking I'm pathetic for choosing to continue it! ).

Look, Ill cut to the chase with the first part: NOT BEING ATTRACTED TO SOMEONE BECAUSE OF AGE IS NOT AGEISM. THINKING SOMEONE IS LESSER BECAUSE OF AGE IS. ATTRACTION, WETHER PHYSICAL OR OTHERWISE, DOES NOT FACTOR INTO ISM'S WHATSOEVER.

As for the rest...again, nothing to do with the topic at hand. But, yes, people have the right to be lousy friends, or go into people work and be a dick, etc. Doesnt make them any less annoying or fuckwadish.

Precisely the sort of thing I'm talking about!!!!

Why would it be 'creepy'? And, what 'disturbing' questions?? Why can he not just be the sort of guy she likes - he's mature, intelligent, attractive, independent, responsible and fun... does it NEED to be any other reason?

Maybe she is exactly the sort of person he's looking for... whatever that may be.

This quote is precisely the reason for this entire thread! Let's pre-judge someone based solely on a number!!!

...In order!

It would be creepy because of the reasons I listed. And the "disturbing" questions are the questions I asked in that post, and those are only some of them.

There is no reason he cannot be the sort of guy she likes. This does not make it any less creepy to an outside observer. Nor does it invalidate previous points made re: Life experience difference, generational gap, and the possibility of the elder using age to attain power over the younger within the relationship.

And lastly, those questions are not prejudging based on a number, they are often valid concerns. Prejuding is saying "Your fourty, so you cant understand computer" or some shit like that. This is saying "Hes fourty, shes nineteen, whats going on?" Because such a pairing is unusual, and presents several possible very harmful scenarios to a third party. Often with good reason.

[Ginger Tea]

I find it entirely possible top be attracted to a fourty year old woman--but I cant entertain thoughts of entering a relationship with one.

Wait till your 60

OK I might have to clarify my quoted post about an older guy on a music forum.

Say in 15 years time Grunge makes a big come back, but the acts of the time are not reforming, but the children of the fans from the 90's have raided the album collections and liked what they heard and a new breed of very 90's grunge comes out, almost mistaken for Alice in Chains in vocals and Nirvana for music.
By this time I will be just over 50 and the predominant audience will be late teens mid twenties and I have signed up to a forum dedicated to the genre in general more than a specific band and they have a "Gigs" subforum.

I might post a review of the band I saw last night who are local and they are touring the UK and saying people should check them out.
Person A, a 23 year old woman, was also at the gig and a few others I was at and going to.
We start talking [posting] about the current acts, nothing about age has been meantioned or the fact that I was old enough to be into some of the bands they only know of via parents CD's when they were new.
She says we should meet for a drink befor the next gig in a weeks time and again no one has told the other their age, although I am sure she would be quite younger than me, but neither are saying "oooh lets fuck", but we are just going to meet for a drink or 3 talk about stuff and see a gig.

She enters the pub and sees me with my "slogan I said I would be wearing TShirt" clocks my age, she could.
A> brush me off and then claim she couldnt make it to the pub and or gig that night.
B> come up to me ask if I am me and say "Wow your a bit old for this arn't you." and all but ignore me online.
C> as B but say something else, actually enjoythemselves in the moment of two people who made friends online.

TLDR
Someone might genuinly be into whatever the youth of today/tomorrow are interested in especially if its a resergace of something that was pivitol to their youth.
If it is plain as day that they are there for the 'product' and not the 'consumers' they should be allowed to go about their business, but some will keep an eye out on them as they will think ill of them due to the age.

My point was the above, but I am not discounting that older people might go to sites (and not claim to be younger) just to pull and maybe have only a passing interest in what the forum is for.

Regarding the "You're hot, wait your Japanese, oh now you're not." that is different to "I just don't fancy Asian's" as the first is bigoted towards Japanese the second is just zero or quite low attraction to Asians regardless of them being born in the UK Japan China or Texas.

My last day at one of my job's, I was told I was surplus to needs and should have been told to not come in today yesterday.
Surplus to needs? so those 3 new people you hired starting today?
I don't recall doing anything, but they had 3 agencies for staff for some bizzare reason and I think they were getting rid of two and I just happened to be with the wrong one, they let me do a few hours to comp me coming here instead of kicking me out an hour into my job as the wage I was on at the time would give me very little after bus fare getting there.

Two of the guys were black, spoke good enough English so I was not aware they were both from Africa, neither did they, they got on like a house on fire for the first hour, then one asked the other where he was from.
A lovely fight ensued as both were (former?) Asylum seekers from waring countries, I found it hillarious that they had both left their countries to escape the war only to bring it here on a one on one level.
Both were instantly sacked
"What are you looking at me for?" I asked the shift lead "You told me I'm sacked I don't give a fuck." and with that they had no one working on a palletizing line.

So I see in a generations time, those who have immigrated here getting all shirty when they find their English born children dating another English child of "country were were at war with"

[Slytovhand]

I like point by point counter

This largely has nothing to do with topic at hand, but for the bit that does: <snip>or if the style is predominantly popular with a much younger crowd, ala justin bieber.

Other than completely lacking taste (in the case of Bieber) - why?? What does that have to do with it?? 50 year old's can't like Beiber now???

The term "creepy" Was not applied to going online to find dates.

Actually, it was...

It was applied to datign someone far outside of ones age range. Which can be creepy for a number of reasons that have been touched on by many people in this thread, but is not inherently wrong. It is, however, tricky at best.

I'm still looking for 'creep' value... Other than getting into pedophilia (which we're NOT discussing), I'm not seeing the 'reasons' for why it's 'creepy'... "tricky at best"... again - why? And, more importantly, why necessarily??? And THAT is my issue! (and some of the posts on here have said it straight out - age difference is questionable... not that sometimes, an age difference is questionable.

I pointed out several reasos why age might factor into such a situation. And please define "permanency"--far as Im concerned, if it's not a fuckbuddy or friends with benefits, if its an actual relationship, there is the possibility of the relationship becoming permanent in a number of ways.

Permanency is marriage (or equivalent)... the intention of staying with someone as a life partner. In those cases (as I've indicated in my previous post), would make sense! But, just 'dating'... (which is more than just an FWB situation) is different. Speaking of such things, it is those situations (FB, or FWB) that this age-ism comes into play anyway!

And again, sometimes age is simply a turnoff, like a bad habit, yellow or crooked teeth, or the wrong haircolor. I find it entirely possible top be attracted to a fourty year old woman--but I cant entertain thoughts of entering a relationship with one.

Question - is it the 'age', or is it society? I have to ask this question, because different societies view this quite differently. (this will lead to your next point...).

About 60-100 years ago, for a white person to be attracted to a non-white person was seriously not a good thing (in many of our countries society). As our society has changed, so has this attitude. Now, I know you're going to say that's not a form of -ism, but I disagree! (I am, incidentally, an idealist in may ways ) We make conscious decisions in relation to our preferences. They are also handed down to us, and instilled in us from our parents, peers, and society in general.

Not necessarily--there are as many subtle variations in the asian races as there are amongst, say, Anyone else. Not liking the japanese type is much like not liking the nordic type for caucasions. It simply takes familiarity with the race overall in question to actually see the physical differences.

But such a person would not need to ask the asien person their nationality in the first place.

True - but that wasn't the direction I was going with the point. It was actually a situation my Chinese friend found when he went to Vietnam... "hey, cool person, where are you from?" "China", "oh, I hate you now"... It wasn't a physical thing, but a psychological... similar to what I'm saying...

Look, Ill cut to the chase with the first part: NOT BEING ATTRACTED TO SOMEONE BECAUSE OF AGE IS NOT AGEISM. THINKING SOMEONE IS LESSER BECAUSE OF AGE IS. ATTRACTION, WETHER PHYSICAL OR OTHERWISE, DOES NOT FACTOR INTO ISM'S WHATSOEVER.

I suggest your lines are getting a little fuzzy there.... as I mentioned before, our attitudes change (over time, and over generations). Also, someone who is (seems to be) a suitable mate for X number of (days, weeks, months, years, decades), but then a certain number is mentioned, and all of a sudden - no dice?? I disagree - yes, it's an -ism. (same as if it was racism, or politics-ism, or whatever). To put it bluntly, humans really need to get over a lot of issues....

What's that fuzzy line? If you find someone attractive, and get along well, and looking to enter into some sort of relationship (other than friendship) then the ONLY thing that changes is that number - how are you not thinking any lesser of them? I was attracted to you and thinking of starting (or continuing) something with you - no I'm not...As I said - fuzzy line! For me, it's clear-cut... for you, perhaps not.

As for the rest...again, nothing to do with the topic at hand. But, yes, people have the right to be lousy friends, or go into people work and be a dick, etc. Doesnt make them any less annoying or fuckwadish.

This was directly related to GK's post back to me... so, needs to be taking into context - ie, not directly related to this argument.

It would be creepy because of the reasons I listed. And the "disturbing" questions are the questions I asked in that post, and those are only some of them.

There is no reason he cannot be the sort of guy she likes. This does not make it any less creepy to an outside observer. Nor does it invalidate previous points made re: Life experience difference, generational gap, and the possibility of the elder using age to attain power over the younger within the relationship.

And lastly, those questions are not prejudging based on a number, they are often valid concerns. Prejuding is saying "Your fourty, so you cant understand computer" or some shit like that. This is saying "Hes fourty, shes nineteen, whats going on?" Because such a pairing is unusual, and presents several possible very harmful scenarios to a third party. Often with good reason.

Oh, sheesh! Holes in your argument everywhere.... I'll just go to the most obvious... "you're forty, she's nineteen - what's going on?" Well, why the hell does there need to be something going on - other than mutual attraction and interest?? You've just described exactly what pre-judging is! "Possible harmful scenarios".. again, what would those be that someone of similar age-pairing won't have? Seriously, "Oh, look, there's an age-difference - s/he must be...<insert issue>". Try that with any other obvious difference, and tell me how it sounds... (no, seriously - just try it!!!)

There is no 'valid concern' - unless you see something in the younger (or older) person's demeanour to indicate there is... and that's the same for any relationship!!!


As I've said, I'm quite willing to accept that age-difference can be an important factor in choosing a long-term partnership - but that's all! Anything else, and you've just crossed that line I started out talking about.

[siead_lietrathua]

with the social aspect of age-gap dating, it can be very hard. my secondary is almost old enough to be my dad, and i know if we were less-strong people dealing with the judgemental attitude tossed out at times would be very difficult. it's also heartbreaking knowing he may pass away 20-30 years before me, again something most people would see as a dealbreaker. they want someone they can grow old with, not to be left behind with half their life left. :/

my only question in regard to this debate atm is, why does it matter really? if someone doesnt find (generic) you attractive, be it because of age, race, hair, choice of comic book hero, no amount of debate will mystically change their mind. and, more importantly, why would you wanna be with someone who finds you unnatractive? that's just a bad relationship wanting to happen.

last note. comparing dating online to dating face to face is hard, unless people exchange pics or use cams at the first hello. age, race, etc are questions you are gonna be asked if all you are exchanging is text. it doesnt make the other person bad for wanting to determine unknown factors, it makes them practical. who wants to invest time and energy into a relationship, even a casual one, only to find there is zero physical attraction once seen face to face.

[Andara Bledin]

Nobody's saying having preferences and being attracted to different sorts of people is bad.

It's just that if you have to sit down and ask the other person about that detail that you have a hang-up about (age, nationality, etc), then there's a good chance it's crossed the line from straight preference to prejudice.

^-.-^

[siead_lietrathua]

but again, if you meet the person face to face than it's nothing to ask about period. i was saying that asking people online their race/age/religion/political preferance/ hair colour/ whether they smoke/ etc isnt prejudice, it's learning about your potential partner.

example: if i know, 100%, that i have never been physically attracted to, say, tall blonds under 23, and someone says they are one, i am perfectly free to think that they will probaly not be someone i am physically attracted to, and act accordingly. really, playing them along on a sense of not wanting to hurt their feelings is WORSE than outright rejection.

heck prejudice is defined at "°An adverse judgement or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge of the facts./ Any preconceived opinion or feeling, whether positive or negative." so why is asking for facts before making a decision being called prejudiced?

[HYHYBT]

What's that fuzzy line? If you find someone attractive, and get along well, and looking to enter into some sort of relationship (other than friendship) then the ONLY thing that changes is that number - how are you not thinking any lesser of them?

For example: suppose a guy is looking to marry and have children. He finds out the woman he's seeing is pushing 50. Even for those who technically still can carry a pregnancy at that age, it's not a good idea. If you want to put it that way, he then thinks less of her *in regards to whether she's a good prospect for mother of his children.* But that doesn't mean he thinks any less of her *as a person.*

As for where people are in life… that doesn't just depend on a number either. I'm 37. I've never even been on a date, I'm just now finishing school, and the most respectable or "real" job I've had is assistant manager at a fast food place. Now, I'm not fool enough to think I'd be appealing to someone ten or fifteen years younger than I am, but as far as where I've gotten in life, that's it.

[SongsOfDragons]

I found an interesting piece of ageism on the BBC today...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17855240 - "Should all job-hogging over-50's resign?"

The article is full of facepalm to me because this is an over-50 talking about how the over-50s should all resign but refusing to do so herself, and as is pointed out in the more sane comments, not all over-50s have a nice cushy job that they could leave tomorrow and live comfortably for the rest of their lives.

The rest of the comments are the usual BBC HYS regulars talking about how they bloody aren't retiring for anybody or anything, and how all young people are retarded and don't deserve work.

This comment (on page two of the 'Highest Rated' sums those comments up nicely...

Funny how people moan about about ageism then go on to slur young people saying they are lazy, unenergetic, know-it-alls who are tatooed and scruffy.

[anstia]

For example: suppose a guy is looking to marry and have children. He finds out the woman he's seeing is pushing 50. Even for those who technically still can carry a pregnancy at that age, it's not a good idea. If you want to put it that way, he then thinks less of her *in regards to whether she's a good prospect for mother of his children.* But that doesn't mean he thinks any less of her *as a person.*

As for where people are in life… that doesn't just depend on a number either. I'm 37. I've never even been on a date, I'm just now finishing school, and the most respectable or "real" job I've had is assistant manager at a fast food place. Now, I'm not fool enough to think I'd be appealing to someone ten or fifteen years younger than I am, but as far as where I've gotten in life, that's it.

Yeah, making assumptions about people based on their age isn't the best idea. I'm 35, but can't have children, so if I were to meet the guy in the example, I still wouldn't be a useful match for him, no matter what else he thought about me.

To broadly cover some of the other points raised:

My feeling is that people who pay other people unwanted attention and won't desist when asked to are creepy, age and/or location not withstanding.

Age is not a deciding factor when it comes to disease. It increases your risk factor, but does not mean, for example,"Now you are 50, you have osteoporosis." Or whatever. I might add, plenty of younger people have what you would call "invisible illnesses", those illnesses which are not apparent from looking at them.

Most people want to find a partner (or multiple partners, if so inclined) whom they find attractive, and who's company they can enjoy for a long time. But age does not guarantee that will happen, unfortunately.

I feel pretty lucky. I do discriminate against people, in relationships including partnerships and friendships, against people who treat me poorly and don't show me the respect I feel I deserve. But that's pretty much it.

[HYHYBT]

Yeah, making assumptions about people based on their age isn't the best idea. I'm 35, but can't have children, so if I were to meet the guy in the example, I still wouldn't be a useful match for him, no matter what else he thought about me.

...and so, if this hypothetical guy were dating you, it wouldn't be your age that gave that information.