Fatties and their Haters

[Boozy]

As for the difference between calorie restriction the "radical lifestyle" and calorie restriction the diet plan... I fail to see the difference between the two. A "CR" lifestyle or whatever you call it advocates eating 30% fewer calories than recommended. Most "diet plans" in the US at least advocate eating no more than 1500 calories.

But is there anyone here who is advocating that? I thought it important that people here understood that the article you were quoting from was referring to a diet plan to which very few people adhere. Most people who maintain a healthy weight don't starve themselves. They simply pay attention to the calories they are consuming.

There are more than two diets in the world. There is middle ground between "eat whatever you want whenever you want" and the absurdity of the Calorie Restriction diet. I don't think you're going to find anyone here who advocates a starvation diet or anorexia.

[DesignFox]

But is there anyone here who is advocating that? <snip>
Most people who maintain a healthy weight don't starve themselves. They simply pay attention to the calories they are consuming.

There are more than two diets in the world. There is middle ground between "eat whatever you want whenever you want" and the absurdity of the Calorie Restriction diet. I don't think you're going to find anyone here who advocates a starvation diet or anorexia.

I wish you had posted that before I got all long winded.

[BroomJockey]

There are more than two diets in the world. There is middle ground between "eat whatever you want whenever you want" and the absurdity of the Calorie Restriction diet. I don't think you're going to find anyone here who advocates a starvation diet or anorexia.

Not really defending either side, but pointing out that the CR that ladyneeva is talking about seems to be advocating over 1500 calories/day, according to her math, and then she says many diets call for less than 1500/day, so the CR isn't absurd in that light. I really don't know enough to comment either way about any of it, beyond the difference between "dieting" and a persons "diet" being sometimes subtle but important.

[Ree]

Yeah, our "fatness" is our own fault in most cases.
Very few overweight people get that way by eating nothing.
That doesn't mean we deserve ridicule for our appearance.
We are, after all, supposed to be about more than just our looks.
What a shallow world it would be if the opposite was true.

As has been said, people have to eat to live, so when a person has a genuine food addiction, it can be very difficult to balance that out.
It seems that food addiction is the one addiction that people are still allowed to ridicule and judge, and have the perception that it's not real, and is just a simple case of laziness or lack of discipline, with people just making excuses for their own lack of self control.

While not excuses, there are quite often very real contributing factors to a person's overeating.

Some examples:
-childhood trauma or abuse resulting in the use of food to fill a void
-poor parenting, especially where a parent uses food as a replacement for love and attention, or rewards good behaviour with food
-childhood sexual abuse resulting in emotional trauma with overeating as a result
-rape or assault (the woman eats to excess to make herself as unattractive as possible)
-muscular-skeletal problems that make physical activity and exercise difficult
-emotional trauma resulting in eating to excess
-depression resulting in overeating or food binging

I will admit there are cases where a person just loves food, and loves eating and consumes too many calories.
That still does not give anyone the right to use derogatory names based on a person's appearance.

[Boozy]

Not really defending either side, but pointing out that the CR that ladyneeva is talking about seems to be advocating over 1500 calories/day, according to her math, and then she says many diets call for less than 1500/day, so the CR isn't absurd in that light.

The numbers don't mean anything out of context. Your ideal calorie intake depends on age, sex, and lifestyle. 1500 calories a day is not restrictive for a woman who is very short and very sedentary, for example. My elderly grandmother, for example, is on a diet of about 1550 calories a day. She can't exercise due to heart problems, and she's barely 5 feet tall. So anything more than that and she'll start packing on the pounds.

[violetyoshi]

*MOD EDIT due to excessive quoting~Please edit quotes


While not excuses, there are quite often very real contributing factors to a person's overeating.

If I haven't heard this BS a million times. People can be fat without constantly overeating, it's called genetics. People are born with the genes to have different body types, some are bigger than others. It's simply a difference, most people can't manage to handle without making it an issue of blame.

Not everyone fat has gone through trauma. This is about as reasonable as saying anyone who is extremely thin is because of trauma. It seems you've bought the fat hate propaganda, hook, line, and sinker.

My problem isn't that I overeat, I'm not very active. Yes, you can be fat too simply from not being that active, it isn't all about people stuffing pies in their faces. Not everyone has 24/7 to be spending exercising. We live in a society now where people do not need to expend the same amount of energy when they had to hunt and survive.

So Ree, go ahead and cheer for the team, that is against you. You have fun with that. We're trying to fight for fat acceptance, and here you are being wishy-washy about shaming yourself, or accepting being fat as a natural part of human diversity. Now I know why Lucy always was so frustrated with Charlie Brown.

[Nyoibo]

This is the same position people have about drug addicts, except you do not need to take drugs to live. You do need to eat to live, and that's what makes losing weight difficult.

You need to eat to live yes, not gorge to live, having that hamburger once a week, or that t-bone once a week is fine, haveing the burger fries and coke 3 or 4 times a week is not.

My problem isn't that I overeat, I'm not very active. Yes, you can be fat too simply from not being that active, it isn't all about people stuffing pies in their faces.

No sorry, your problem is that you overeat, you overeat for your level of activity and nutritional needs, if you're not very active you need less food than you do if you were active, if you havent modified your eating habits to allow for that then you are overeating.

[kibbles]

I cannot speak for Ree; but, I don't thnk she was being wishy washy or shaming herself. She made very valid points. Yes there are people who are bigger through no fault of their own; but, there are a lot that are bigger due to their own choices.

One cannot say all people who are big are overeaters, just as one cannot say that all people are big because of their genes and they can't help it.

[Flyndaran]

...
I have all the time in the world for people who want to help themselves, I do not however have time for, nor give a shit about people who are unwilling to change or help themselves.

And if we have no sympathy for you if you develop a disease, that's ok too? You don't seem to want to help yourself to not be a jerk, so it's the same, right?

...
When I'm at work debating what I want to eat, and one of the whales on my shift says "You can eat whatever you want, it's not like there's anything to you anyway!" it really irks me. And yes, I said whale. Sue me.
...

I won't sue, but I have lost some respect for you. Responding to someone's mistaken belief with bigoted speech is not honorable or nice.
There really are some people that can't keep weight on no matter how much they try to eat.
My best friend's mother was prescribed many drugs including marijuana to try to kick up her appetite. She is still woefully underweight. It isn't even anorexia. She wants to be healthy, but her body simply has anti-hunger.

...
I do though, have a problem if they (and I apologize for sounding like an elitist asshole) weigh more than both of my cars, and they're giving *me* shit about *my* weight. My feeling is, that unless they're perfect, they have *no right* to say anything. If they do anyway, they're *inviting* some rather nasty comments from me, usually "fuck off" or the Pittsburgh Salute.
...

Eh, fat people aren't immune to the skewed culture of fatty hating. They are just as likely to unconsciously spew such bigotry as skinny people.

...
No sorry, your problem is that you overeat, you overeat for your level of activity and nutritional needs, if you're not very active you need less food than you do if you were active, if you havent modified your eating habits to allow for that then you are overeating.

Biology is not that simple!

[AFPheonix]

Ladyneeva, the article you have quoted from is not about basic dieting, and it's certainly not about eating a healthy diet based on fruits, vegetables, and lean proteins. It is about Calorie Restriction, an intensely restrictive dietary plan supposedly meant to increase longevity. The goal of CR is hunger.

For those who are not familiar with Calorie Restriction, here's the wiki article.

The vast majority of people who are watching their weight are not restricting themselves to the point of perpetual hunger. CR enthusiats are a fringe group, and they shouldn't be presented as the norm.

Exactly. The most effective diet is figuring out your personal Basal Metabolic Rate, then creating a small calorie deficit by going for a few hundred fewer calories per day. A larger person's BMR will be larger than a small person, simply because they have that much more mass to maintain.
Yes, losing weight can be difficult for people, but it's not nigh on impossible. Start with one small item to give up or substitute.
For example, last summer I stopped drinking soda and gatorade and replaced it with plain water. I also stopped drinking as much alcohol (notice that I didn't stop cold turkey), and started making more of my meals at home where I can control the ingredients. I've lost 10 pounds in the last year just with those small steps. (I can not only zip up my chaps by myself, I can mount my horse from the ground in them, because they're loose enough to allow my knees to bend )
Creating a large deficit by undereating or over exercising can actually prevent weight loss. That, and it's not particularly healthy for you.

This is exactly what I was saying. I had an eating disorder, that was just as difficult to work thru as anyone with bulimia or anorexia, and that I still have to watch in case I fall back into it. Someone saying to me "Just eat less, fatso" would have just driven me back inside myself, and I certainly wouldn't have wanted to seek help for my eating disorder ever again.

Tho it's true that there are people who are greedy and are fat just cuz they ate all the pies, it's prejudiced to assume that all people who are overweight are so cuz of that. Also, if you've never been in the grip of a mental illness, you're not going to understand it. I also had clinical depression at one point and nope, being told "Cheer up!" wouldn't have done the slightest good when I was struggling with it.

There's a lot of reasons why people are overweight, it can be a physical thing due to glandular issues, it can be a mental health thing. It can be a socio-economic thing.
If we want to tackle the issues of weight loss, we are simply going to have to go beyond telling people to boot-strap it. It's going to have to start with some real, honest to god CORRECT education on nutrition. People simply don't realize that we are not above the first law of thermodynamics. A lot of people don't realize how much crap goes into processed foods. They think diets mean sticks and stale water, when that simply isn't the case.
We need smarter zoning in cities to allow for real grocery stores to be accessible to all. We need better nutritional information in restaurants and stores.
Having said all that, it still ultimately is up to the individual to figure out how to make use of that information and to get help for themselves, because ultimately it's their hormones that are going haywire from all the excess fat putting out estrogens into their system, it's their knees and hips groaning under more weight than they were designed to carry, it's their hearts that can't get all that fluid moved around the body effectively. If they need mental health care, with the help of an advocate, they need to go get it.
If it's a medication issue, they need to work with their physician to get a combo together that doesn't have unwanted side-effects. If it's a thyroid issue, well, that's easily fixed with a script that's found on most every store's $4 generic list.

[MaggieTheCat]

I cannot speak for Ree; but, I don't thnk she was being wishy washy or shaming herself. She made very valid points. Yes there are people who are bigger through no fault of their own; but, there are a lot that are bigger due to their own choices.

Yeah, I think Ree was just pointing out that, out of the people who are overweight because they DO overeat, some of them have real medical, physical, or psychological issues that contribute to their overeating, that makes it that much harder for those people to cut back on what they do eat.

If I haven't heard this BS a million times. People can be fat without constantly overeating, it's called genetics. (snip)

Not everyone fat has gone through trauma. (snip)

So Ree, go ahead and cheer for the team, that is against you. You have fun with that. We're trying to fight for fat acceptance, and here you are being wishy-washy about shaming yourself, or accepting being fat as a natural part of human diversity.

Ree never said that the only reason people are fat is because of trauma, and that people only get fat by overeating. She was just pointing out that trauma is one possible cause of people overeating. I also don't see where she's "cheering for the team that is against her" or being wishy-washy or shaming herself. Honestly, your response to her post didn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[Ree]

If I haven't heard this BS a million times. ...
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Now I know why Lucy always was so frustrated with Charlie Brown.

Excuse me?

Did you read all of the post or just pick and choose what you wanted to use against me to boost your own argument?

I can do without the snotty comments, thank you very much, as I did not say everyone who is fat has background emotional issues. I did say that in many cases, that is the situation. I have not "bought the fat propaganda" as you so snarkily suggested.

I did say that excess weight is usually due to eating too much combined with inactivity.
It's just common sense.

You can go on about genetics all you want, but the fact is, calories in with no energy out = excessve weight, no matter how you want to put the spin.

I have a foster child who weighed 90 lbs soaking wet.
That kid would tie into a plate of food that would put my husband to shame, yet she never gained an ounce.
She was pretty proud of her genetics and metabolism.
After she moved out, I didn't see her for sseveral months.

When I did see her, I know the shock on my face was evident.
She had gained close to 50 lbs.

Her eating habits hadn't changed at all in that time, and she still had the same genes she was born with.

She had moved to another town and was living with this controlling dude who wouldn't let her go out with friends or do much of anything except sit around the apartment.
When she was living with us, she was active and walking daily.

Now, she is out of that situation and has moved back to our town.
She is still eating the same as she always did, yet she is now back to that 90 lb little stick of a girl.
She's back to the daily walking and keeping active.

As for cheering for the team that's against us, I am seriously doing a major WTF??
You made no sense there, Lucy.

Sorry if I frustrate you, but I happen to like Charlie Brown, and I really don't get what you were trying to say there.

[AdminAssistant]

As for cheering for the team that's against us, I am seriously doing a major WTF??
You made no sense there, Lucy.

Sorry if I frustrate you, but I happen to like Charlie Brown, and I really don't get what you were trying to say there.

Lucy used to call Charlie Brown "wishy-washy" all the time, I think that's where the reference comes from.

Blas, I'm chiming in with the others. It's just as rude to call an overweight person a "whale" as it would be for them to call you a "bimbo".

Ree is absolutely right. Being overweight is caused by eating more and exercising less. However, the reasons for overeating/not exercising vary person to person. It could be genetics, lifestyle, trauma. Not everybody has access to a gym or lives in a place where you can exercise outside all the time. I certainly wouldn't go for a walk in KS in January, not anymore than necessary. Not everyone has time to do it. There are some days when my only breaks are mealtimes. If the option is 'go exercise' or 'finish the paper on time'...well, that's a pretty easy choice.

I really don't care what you think about me privately. I look in the mirror, and while I'm not thrilled, I'm content enough. Enough men still find me attractive, and I'm a generally happy, likeable person. I've never been bigger, but I've never been at a happier place in my life, generally speaking. All I ask is that people keep their nasty fattie comments to themselves. That I can go into stores that sell both regular and 'plus-sized' clothing and get the same service as a thin person. Stuff like that, that's all.

[Flyndaran]

I've been skinny, normal, fat, and obese. Guess what, I'm happiest being fat. Screw anyone that says I shouldn't be. It's my life, and I deserve the same measure of respect regardless of my weight.

[violetyoshi]

Lucy used to call Charlie Brown "wishy-washy" all the time, I think that's where the reference comes from.

That's where it's from. If the above poster loves Charlie Brown so much, I would imagine they'd be able to figure out that easy reference on their own. My name isn't Lucy, it's Jackie.