Fatties and their Haters

[miyon]

I am overweight, about 270.
About 3 years ago I was diagnosed with schizo-effective disorder. I had 3 good medications that help. One caused no weight gain but the side-effects were horrible so the Dr put me on the other two.
I take 100mg of one and 300mg of the other. They both cause serious weight gain. As soon as I started taking them I gain 40 pounds in less then 2 months.
And it just keeps adding on.
I went to the YMCA to exercise everyday for 3 months and I was still adding pounds.
The weight gain has now made my depression even worse. I hate how I look. I hate leaving the house. I go out to dinner with my family and see how they watch me eat, knowing what their thinking, just like at the grocery store. It might be paranoia but I still feel it.

Finally after 3 years of this my parents are helping me pay for Nurta-System and I (with out telling my dr) I have cut down my medication. So the voices are back. The mood swings, all of it. My mom thinks it is a terrible idea to reduce the medication but I cant take it anymore.
I havent checked because I am afraid to but some people have noted that I look like I lost some weight.
Im scared though because once I lose the weight and bring back the right amounts of medication I feel like the weight will come right back.

There is a new drug that is awaiting FDA approval that is for my disorder and doesnt cause weight gain. I just have to wait for them to ok it.

[Boozy]

miyon - Thanks for correcting me about the prescription drug thing. Someone had told me a while back that certain psychotropics caused crazy weight gain, but I'd forgotten that.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

To illustrate how messed up the so called "BMI" system is, I went and did mine again. It used to say I was overweight, when I clearly wasn't, but I've dropped a few pounds since then. Now I am on the high end of normal. When I was "overweight", I was a size 8 at 5'6". I'd just had a baby.

Now I'm between 23 and 24. I'm now wearing a size 6.

Um, yeah. That's accurate.

People can NEVER guess my weight. I'm strangly solid, and weigh quite a bit for my size. I have muscular legs and shoulders, and I suspect my bones are very solid. More than one guy has nearly herniated himself thinking I would be easy to lift.

So since the BMI takes pretty much nothing into account about how much someone would weigh, it's worthless, in my opinion.

Amethyst Hunter, sounds like your dad is suffering from acceptance of that wonderful old chestnut, The Double Standard. It's far more okay for a man to be overweight than a woman. An overweight man is forgiven. An overweight woman is not; or women, it's an unforgivable crime to be "unnattractive" (and that's not to say big girls are unattractive, but you know what I mean.)

I know a lot of very large people. And pretty much every single one of them is overweight because they either eat too much, or they eat the wrong stuff, or they simply will not get moving. However, it's not anyone's business but theirs. How it became acceptable to point out "flaws" in others is beyond me. Fat people know they are fat. They dont' need help drawing that conclusion. It's an extremely offensive mindset.

My dad and my very senile grandmother do that too, point out large people in public. It drives me up a freaking wall. I have actually said, "Dad, you've known me for four and a half decades, have I ever thought that was funny? Have I ever cared a stranger was overweight?" Geez!

[AFPheonix]

Seroquel is a pretty gnarly drug for weight gain. Zyprexa might be worth a try if you haven't given it a whirl.

[BlaqueKatt]

. Weight loss drugs are not the worlds biggest sellers. Statins like Lipitor and Crestor are.

not quite-
CBS News
"Americans spend about $35 billion a year on weight-loss products. "
Barrons smart money
"The drug industry's statin sales surpassed $15 billion last year."

That is over twice as much on diet products than on Statin drugs.

.Yay for statistics. That doesn't mean to say that we can't get valuable information from it, however. We can get the general gist that society as a whole is getting fatter.

There are 3 types of lies-Lies, Damn lies, and statistics-Benjamin Disraeli.

Statistics can easily be manipulated to cause panic where there is none-there are even entire books devoted to this-"The secret language of statistics, so appealing in a fact-minded culture, is employed to sensationalize, inflate, confuse, and oversimplify,"

in the book More Damned Lies and Statistics, the author warns against believing as facts the statistical figures that are always presented to us from various sources - both authoritative and otherwise. The solution is to be critical and to ask questions such as: Who produced those numbers? Exactly what was counted? What are those numbers really saying? Is there a way to present the information in a clearer more objective way?

The SEER cancer review which can be found here, lists cancer statistics for all forms of cancer, including age of death, median age for diagnosis, etc. Shows the rates of melanoma increasing every year since 1975-does this mean there's more cases or just better diagnosis?

Also the median age for diagnosis is age 59-going by statistics my husband shouldn't have worried about the dark spot on his abdomen-if he had believed in statistics, he'd be dead from the skin cancer his doctor removed at age 21.


Statistics are numbers and when there is missing data(number of "overweight/obese" people-that have higher muscle mass) the numbers lie.

example of how statistics lie-second-hand smoke is a cancer risk, it kills 3000 per year-we all "know" this "fact"-however:

Relative risk is determined by first establishing a baseline, an accounting of how common a disease (or condition) is in the general population. This general rate is given a Relative Risk of 1.0, no risk at all. An increase in risk would result in a number larger than 1.0. A decrease in risk would result in a lower number, and indicates a protective effect. As a rule of thumb, an RR of at least 2.0 is necessary to indicate a cause and effect relationship, and a RR of 3.0 is preferred.

The EPA announced the results of the study before it was finished. The EPA based their numbers on a meta analysis of just 11 studies. The analysis showed no increase in risk at the 95% confidence level.
Even after excluding most of the studies, the EPA couldn't come up with 3,000 deaths, but they had already announced the results. So they changed the CI to 90%, which, in effect, doubled their margin of error. After juggling the numbers, The EPA came up with an RR (Relative Risk) of ETS causing lung cancer 1.19. Although the EPA declared ETS was a Class A carcinogen with an RR of 1.19, in analysis of other agents they found relative risks of 2.6 and 3.0 insufficient to justify a Group A classification.


So Statistics can be used to lie-(The 1993 EPA study was thrown out by a federal court because of this)

[miyon]

Seroquel is a pretty gnarly drug for weight gain. Zyprexa might be worth a try if you haven't given it a whirl.

Seroquel is the one that I take 3 times a day totaling 300mg. Clozaril is the 100mg each day.

The dr's have tried me on a number of different drugs but only the Seroquel and clozaril together help with the crazies. Over time my symptoms keep getting worse and the only thing to counter it is more drugs.

I will say the Nutra-system is pretty good so far. The food tastes great and are very easy to make, Just pop in microwave for 1 min and hot yummy food. I just finished a cheese pizza for dinner tonight. But its damn expensive.

[AFPheonix]

not quite-
CBS News
"Americans spend about $35 billion a year on weight-loss products. "
Barrons smart money
"The drug industry's statin sales surpassed $15 billion last year."

That is over twice as much on diet products than on Statin drugs.

The weight loss drugs you quoted included herbal and otc remedies. If we want to even out that cost compared to stuff to help treat symptoms of obesity llike statins, we should really include all of them, including alpha and beta blockers, diuretics, diabetes mainenence meds like Glucophage, and so on. We should also include all the herbal remedies people take to help treat their problems as well. I imagine the total cost would then go into the stratosphere.

There are 3 types of lies-Lies, Damn lies, and statistics-Benjamin Disraeli.

Statistics can easily be manipulated to cause panic where there is none-there are even entire books devoted to this-"The secret language of statistics, so appealing in a fact-minded culture, is employed to sensationalize, inflate, confuse, and oversimplify,"

Indeed, you just tried to do so with your example with your husband's skin cancer. (Glad he's doing well, though). A median age of course won't apply to every single person, as people fall on both sides of that number. All it can give you is a general guesstimate for the majority of the population. This is the same thing with BMI. There are exceptions to numbers that are fairly broad like both of the examples we're working with now. That doesn't mean that there aren't valid points to be gleaned from either in regards to the general populace.

Now, to get back on point: you seem to be saying that we as a society are NOT any fatter than we have been in the past, by attempting to shoot down BMI. Let's address this further. Let's define BMI. BMI = weight (kg)/height (m^2). This measurement was only meant to give physicians a starting point to talk to people who are of average build regarding their size or lack thereof. It of course goes haywire in the case of very small fine-boned people or larger, more muscular people.
BMI of course could be affected by height and muscle, since height and weight are the two variables that are plugged in to get that number.
We already know that BMI has been increasing steadily over the last few decades. This can be the result of one of two things: either the weight of people with average builds has been ballooning, or people have been getting a helluva lot shorter.
Average height has held steady since at least the 50's, so the first option is going to be more plausible.
People can put weight on in essentially two ways: heavy weight training or just getting fat. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell am not seeing over half the populace running around muscle bound. So, option number 2 is the more plausible again.

Sorry, The US and Australia are full of fatties, and Europe isn't far behind.

[Greenday]

We already know that BMI has been increasing steadily over the last few decades. This can be the result of one of two things: either the weight of people with average builds has been ballooning, or people have been getting a helluva lot shorter.
Average height has held steady since at least the 50's, so the first option is going to be more plausible.
People can put weight on in essentially two ways: heavy weight training or just getting fat. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell am not seeing over half the populace running around muscle bound. So, option number 2 is the more plausible again.

Actually, I'd say average height has been increasing in the past few years. My generation for the most part seems taller than the last generation.

It really is true. You do see a ton more overweight people than you do see muscle.

[blas87]

I'm not so sure I agree with you, Greenday. I see more short men these days than taller ones.

I see a lot of guys who are no taller than 5'6......and really close to my weight.

[Greenday]

I was nearly 5'11" when I graduated and I was one of the shorter guys.

[BlaqueKatt]

The weight loss drugs you quoted included herbal and otc remedies. If we want to even out that cost compared to stuff to help treat symptoms of obesity llike statins, we should really include all of them, including alpha and beta blockers, diuretics, diabetes mainenence meds like Glucophage, and so on. We should also include all the herbal remedies people take to help treat their problems as well. I imagine the total cost would then go into the stratosphere.

non-overweight people use those as well, diabetes is not only an overweight disease, neither are heart conditions, and for that matter when I was 16 I had high cholesterol, I weighed 94 pounds, due to an eating disorder, my sister has perfect cholesterol and shes over 250*.

*6 months ago she was over 300, she quit drinking soda, lost 20 pounds, and I gave her my old bicycle when I got a new one-she's doing really good.

[Giggle Goose]

I was nearly 5'11" when I graduated and I was one of the shorter guys.

Wow, where did you graduate from Greenday? I'm with Blas; it's damn hard to find a guy over 6' around here.

My thoughts on the rest of this matter? I was disgusted enough with myself growing up as an overweight kid WITHOUT the "helpful' advice from my peers and strangers.

[AFPheonix]

non-overweight people use those as well, diabetes is not only an overweight disease, neither are heart conditions, and for that matter when I was 16 I had high cholesterol, I weighed 94 pounds, due to an eating disorder, my sister has perfect cholesterol and shes over 250*.

*6 months ago she was over 300, she quit drinking soda, lost 20 pounds, and I gave her my old bicycle when I got a new one-she's doing really good.

I have a few skinny people on statins too. I also had an extremely bony person looking for weight loss products yesterday. So?
Glucophage and glipizide and drugs like that are typically used in Diabetes type II patients. That's why I included those into drugs to treat symptoms of obesity. Heart disease, high blood pressure, and overstressed joints are also part of the range of problems aggravated by obesity, as well as endocrine issues and PCOS.
Again, if "Big Pharma" wants to make lots of money, they want the populace fat. More health issues to medicate.

[powerboy]

I am overweight. It is because I eat to much. I am on a diet and I gave up Sodas. Well only 1 day a week i will have drink soda other wise, it is water and milk.

[blas87]

Personally, it's much more satisfying to make fun of stupid people.