Fatties and their Haters

[ladyneeva]

The thing isn't how rudely you tell me that I'm a bad person, it's that you're equating a physical trait with a moral imperative and telling me that since I don't measure up to YOUR ideal of a good person then obviously I must be a BAD person.

Also, studies have been done that show that dieting does not work. It's not that you can't starve yourself into a smaller size, it's that eventually your metabolism adapts and starts storing every possible nutrient as fat instead of using it to repair tissue, build muscle, etc.

I can't find the full text anywhere for free (which is not unusual for scientific papers honestly) but there was a study done as far back as 1991 that concluded:

decades of research on the biology of weight regulation make clear the unlikelihood of success with dietary treatment, information which the health professions have been slow to integrate. Recommendations are made for improving lifestyle, health risk factors, body image, and the self-esteem of the obese without requiring weight loss.

Thats from the abstract of the study, which can be found here if you want to pay for it: http://tinyurl.com/nkpxxd

Junkfood Science (yeah I know... but they're about the only source I've found that breaks down the studies into plain language I can understand and actually cites their sources) did a break down of that article and a few others in the same vein back in December 07 (http://tinyurl.com/mv3wpw) and one of the things quoted in their blog post really made sense to me. Paraphrasing here (the exact quote is in the post I linked in this paragraph)

Some 54 million Americans are currently dieting... yet the number of people who are fat keeps going up. If dieting worked, wouldn't that cause the rate to at least hold steady if not drop? Just a bit down from that observation, there is a paragraph that says:

A study of 784 participants, she reported, discovered that in trying to maintain their weight loss, they were obsessively exercising 1 1/2 hours a day and eating severely calorie restrictive diets of about 1,400 kcal/day. “In other words, their life is devoted to weight loss.” They generally exhibit anorectic behaviors, not healthy, normal eating.

And you know thats really not the kind of life I want to live. And contrary to the comment made a little earlier (forget from whom), I'm not "whining because I'm fat".

I'm "whining" because of how I'm being treated for being fat.

And speaking of things said earlier... the comment that children can catch second hand fat learning unhealthy habits from their parents.

Is catching second hand anorexia better? That is JUST as (in my opinion, MORE of an) unhealthy of a habit, and the incidence of eating disorders among children as young as 5 to 7 is increasing as a result of our society that feels it needs to tell children that unless they're skinny and perfect they're bad.

cites -- http://tinyurl.com/ck44lg http://tinyurl.com/kpnwxd http://tinyurl.com/32vnpv

And finally... it's pretty well accepted that two things which actually CAUSE weight gain are stress and depression. So... how will causing people to feel ashamed of themselves, to cause them to hate themselves because everyone else does, to make them stress out obsessing over every single calorie they ingest and worry about how they'll make time to work off that calorie and even skip sleep (another thing thats been indicated as causing weight gain) in order to exercise away that sin before anyone sees it on their hips... how is that kind of thing doing ANYTHING to support your (general sense) stated goal of making sure everyone becomes thin?

You can't hate people for their own good.

oh, and Flyndaran, my comment about how would this work if we were shaming people for being gay, black, handicapped, etc was sarcasm -- obviously, calling people evil and telling them they should be ashamed of themselves for those things is a horrible rotten thing to do. I was attempting not so subtly to make the point that telling people they're horrible and should be ashamed of themselves for being fat is ALSO a horrible rotten thing to do.

[Cat]

I "work out" roughly 1.5-2 hr day.....Its not obsessive at all....its hiking....its my hobby. I also do eat around 1400 cals (or less some days) Obsessive,,,,not...if I want that Twix bar taunting me in the vending machine....I'll eat that lil bastard.

To each their own....if people want to work out, do it. If not, don't. I just can't repect people who WANT change and do nadda about it (this applies to all things in life...I can start another thread about friends who want to get jobs but do nothing to look for them)

[Boozy]

And speaking of things said earlier... the comment that children can catch second hand fat learning unhealthy habits from their parents.

Is catching second hand anorexia better?

There is obviously a middle-ground between obesity and anorexia. Just because my parents didn't let me eat cake whenever I wanted doesn't mean I was raised to be obsessed with my weight.

[DesignFox]

The thing isn't how rudely you tell me that I'm a bad person, it's that you're equating a physical trait with a moral imperative and telling me that since I don't measure up to YOUR ideal of a good person then obviously I must be a BAD person.

<snip>
And you know thats really not the kind of life I want to live. And contrary to the comment made a little earlier (forget from whom), I'm not "whining because I'm fat".

I'm "whining" because of how I'm being treated for being fat.

<snip>

I think you misinterpreted my posts. I certainly never said that I think fat=bad person. In fact, I think if you re-read, you'll discover I'm saying just the opposite. If I don't know a person's situation, I'm not going to judge.

I never said that you personally were whining for being fat, either.

I said that I have known people who have- and what were they doing about it? Sitting on the couch and eating a box of cookies. So, no. They don't get my sympathy. Because they are doing nothing but complaining.

If any problem in life is bothering a person- be it their job situation, bad habit, weight gain or loss, lack of fitness, boredom, etc. I will be a sympathetic friend- but not if they don't bother *trying* to help themselves.

No one on here said anything about people being awful for not "dieting" either.

Making changes in your diet, doing a basic calorie count, and just being aware of what your intake is, is not the same thing as doing a crash diet.

I don't diet. It doesn't work. You're right. The body will adjust to the lack of intake. I just don't take in more than my body needs to function for the day. Because that's where the extra fat comes from (in MY case- which I've already stated several times varies from other people's)- extra unused energy.

I think everyone agrees that it isn't right to judge based on appearance. And I agree that depression and stress can lead to weight gain. So ridiculing someone for being heavy certainly isn't helping their situation.

Trust me. When I was 15 lbs heavier, my Ex used to ridicule me quite a bit and tell me I was fat. It was depressing. Part of the reason my life changed drastically after we broke up. It was a blessing in disguise. Truth be told, I was miserable because partly his words were true- I *had* gotten fat, and I hated it. So, I did something. I finally found something that worked.

Some people are naturally going to be heavy. There's nothing for it. But I refuse to believe that this is true of 90% of the population. I agree that snide remarks and prejudgements are inappropriate. So I do my part by not saying nasty things. If a friend asked me for advice, I'd tell them the things that worked for me, or things I know that worked for others, or I'd tell them to consult their doctor if they really want to make changes.

Outside of that. Some people are horrible. They always will be. I've just come to accept that.

EDIT:
Oh maybe the way I should say things is this- If someone is heavy, and happy that way, then I certainly agree that people should keep their mouths shut. I would never tell a friend of mine they needed to lose weight or give them advice on such if they never expressed an interest in losing weight. I agree, THAT would be very rude!

[joe hx]

I wish it was so simple that all I had to do was "drink a shake!" or "take this pill!"

adipose industries - the fat just walks away!

[Nyoibo]

I get sick of hearing this shit "I can't loose weight" "Diets don't work for me" *insert generic "it's not my fault"*

Seriously, unless you have a medical reason, yes it bloody well is your fault, I'm 110kg, I'm overwieght, and you know what, I'm not blaming anyone else but my self, I do circus tt 1-2 t aek, 'mdoing 4 hours of massage 3 days a week and medieval training once a week, that's a fair bit of exercise, want to know why I'm not loosing weight at the moment? It's not because I'm dieting and it doesn't work, it's not because I can't loose weight, it's because of the freaking half a 24" pizza that I had for dinner, the massive amounts of fruit juice, the chocolate.

People can loose weight, but people don't want to put in effort, they don't want to do the hard yards, they want a quick fix, so they go for stomach banding, or gastric bypass and if they can't get the quick fix complain it's not their fault, instead of maning the fuck up, stopping eating all the shit, eat sensibly and moderate portions and do some fucking exercise.

As for weight gain being caused by depression or stress, I don't buy it, overeating causes weight gain not depression, I've lived with what has been classed as dysthymia/severe clinical depression for 4 or 5 years now, it's not responsible for my weight.

As to dieting, it does work, to an extent, but weight loss can only be achieved and maintained by a change in lifestyle, cutting out sugar and carbs, hitting the gym, that will loose weight, but when you stop dieting, you have to keep going to the gym and not go back to your old eating habits, yoyo dieting is what fucks your metabolism up and sends it into starvation mode, which is where it converts any energy it gets into fat, a sensible eating plan won't do that.

Some 54 million Americans are currently dieting... yet the number of people who are fat keeps going up. If dieting worked, wouldn't that cause the rate to at least hold steady if not drop?

Because of those 54 million, how many after they've dieted go back to their old eating habits?

Just as an aside for healthy eating, does anyone know what the recomended serving of meat/protien per day is?

The size of the palm of your hand, not the whole hand, just the palm, how often do you see a cut of meat that small? how often do you eat one that small?


BTW ladyneeva, this was in no way directed at you even though it may look like it, it's just a pet peeve of mine that turned into a rant in general.

[BroomJockey]

Just as an aside for healthy eating, does anyone know what the recomended serving of meat/protien per day is?

The size of the palm of your hand, not the whole hand, just the palm,

Close. It's "a deck of cards," and it's "2-3/day." Just the size of your palm would be one, maybe 1.5 servings, depending on the size of your hand.

[Boozy]

While we're on the topic: One of my pet peeves is having to eyeball my meat servings to figure out how many servings I've got. Other than maybe my hamburger patties, nothing I eat is shaped like a deck of cards, and I'm bad at making spatial comparisons. I suppose I could get a food scale, but who wants to go to all that trouble? I like to watch what I eat, but weighing stuff is just too much.

Every time I put on a few pounds, it's always something seemingly minor that's causing it. When a Starbucks opened down the street from me, I gained about ten pounds (I'm estimating here, as I don't have a scale). It took me a while to figure out that I had replaced my regular morning coffee (with a small splash of milk and a bit of sugar) with venti lattes....made with 2% milk. I was drinking an extra 200 calories a day without realizing it, because I never had to factor coffee into my diet planning before. So I cut back on the lattes.

It made me realize how easy it is to take in calories from sources you don't think about. Dressings, for example. There are salads on the menus of many fast food places that have more calories in them than their hamburgers, all due to the dressings they give you.

[anriana]

I get sick of hearing this shit "I can't loose weight" "Diets don't work for me" *insert generic "it's not my fault"*

I've lived with what has been classed as dysthymia/severe clinical depression for 4 or 5 years now, it's not responsible for my weight.

And everyone else ever is exactly like you, so your situation applies to them.

As for weight gain being caused by depression or stress, I don't buy it, overeating causes weight gain not depression,

Depression causes overeating. Overating causes weight gain. Tada.

As to dieting, it does work, to an extent, but weight loss can only be achieved and maintained by a change in lifestyle, cutting out sugar and carbs, hitting the gym, that will loose weight, but when you stop dieting, you have to keep going to the gym and not go back to your old eating habits, yoyo dieting is what fucks your metabolism up and sends it into starvation mode, which is where it converts any energy it gets into fat, a sensible eating plan won't do that.

Do you know what calories are?

[Nyoibo]

And everyone else ever is exactly like you, so your situation applies to them.

Yes, yes it does. (yeah, no one ever expects that reply)

Depression causes overeating. Overating causes weight gain. Tada.

And weight gain causes depression, the vicious cycle, stop eating *gasp* the cycle is broken.

Do you know what calories are?

Yes I do actually, a calorie is about 4.18 Kilojoules, As to what it's a measurement of a Calorie (C) is the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of 1kg of water (1 litre) by 1 degree Celsius, a Calorie (cal) is the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water by 1 degree Celsius.


During adolescence is when you gain fat cells, adults fat cell numbers remain basically constant, they do however expand massively, so childhood really does set the precident for adulthood in terms of weight, that's one of the reasons that dieting without changing your lifestyle doesn't work, the fat cells don't go away, they just shrink, so they're there waiting to fill up again if you go back to what you were doing.

[Flyndaran]

..
During adolescence is when you gain fat cells, adults fat cell numbers remain basically constant, they do however expand massively, so childhood really does set the precident for adulthood in terms of weight, that's one of the reasons that dieting without changing your lifestyle doesn't work, the fat cells don't go away, they just shrink, so they're there waiting to fill up again if you go back to what you were doing.

Also infancy. But that doesn't determine how fat you must be. It just determines where you distribute it.
I was a morbidly obese baby, so when I gain or lose weight it flows from all over. It is almost impossible for others to guess my weight because of how even it is.

I get sick of hearing this shit "I can't loose weight" "Diets don't work for me" *insert generic "it's not my fault"*
...l.

When insulting people, it's probably best if you use correct spelling. It's lose not loose. That also happens to be a pet peeve.
It is interesting how you know more about people's health and what is and is not possible for them to do, than they themselves know.
On average it is unlikely for every obese person to have an underlying problem. But on an individual basis, you know jack shit.
As long as you don't spew this venom toward any real person, then I've got no problem.

[violetyoshi]

Free for all fat bashing at Customers Suck!

I was informed by a mod at Customers Suck, that I should post here about the issues I have concerning this thread:

http://www.customerssuck.com/board/s...ad.php?t=50435

I was going to post this website at that forum:

www.bigfatfacts.com

This is an egregious form of fat prejudice, and while I understand that these people are "off the clock", but not everyone is required to be of perfect physical health to exist in society.

I hope to see the mods at customers suck, regard fat prejudice with the seriousness it should be dealt with. There's a difference between complaining about one fat customer, and then allowing a thread to go on claiming all fat people are like said customer.

There also needs to be a way for people to speak out against such prejudice, without it being an issue of turning things into a debate. There would be no debate, if people could simply understand that everyone is different. There are healthy fat people, there are unhealthy thin people. It seems so hard for people to be able to comprehend this reality.

[violetyoshi]

adipose industries - the fat just walks away!

Have you seen this episode of Dr Who?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MTFcfGTGyc

The little babies made from the fat are just so freaking cute!

[Flyndaran]

I was informed by a mod at Customers Suck, that I should post here about the issues I have concerning this thread:

http://www.customerssuck.com/board/s...ad.php?t=50435
....

I read that thread and didn't see any fatty bashing. They were legitimately complaining about a type of lazy customer. They didn't call all fatties lazy.

[BlaqueKatt]

I hope to see the mods at customers suck, regard fat prejudice with the seriousness it should be dealt with. There's a difference between complaining about one fat customer, and then allowing a thread to go on claiming all fat people are like said customer.

I was rezoning the floor and this lady flies over to me

She seemed perfectly healthy, but I know you can't see all disabilities

where do you see "fat customer" in those only two lines describing the customer?


I also don't see anyone "bashing fat people" in that thread I see them bashing people that complain about having to walk incredibly short distances(8 feet, 20 feet. 2.5 blocks etc). The OP didn't even mention the size of the customer complaining, the only mention of weight was people speculating if people being too lazy to walk anywhere had anything to do with rising obesity rates. Saw nothing about "ZOMG all fat people are lazy!"

I've seen more "thin prejudice" than "fat prejudice" on CS

I remember a thread in particular where a poster was harassed by the clerks in a plus-sized clothing store-EVERY POST said something horrible about the "skinny-ass bitch" and the OP mentioned that stores don't make clothes for "real women" implying that anyone under a size 12 was not real-I mentioned this disparity and got jumped on by everyone except the op-the OP realized what she said was as hurtful as saying something about a larger person and edited her post. No one else saw it that way though-but everyone jumps on someone calling someone "fat" or one of the other euphamisms for it, but it's perfectly ok to call someone "poster child for anorexia"-do smaller people not have feelings?

I'm not a doctor-I won't say anything about anyone's weight-I only ask the same.