Leaving kids to play at a park = child endangerment?

[Duelist925]

One change I know I've seen from when I grew up...People today don't want to get involved. If I was at the park playing, and hurt myself, any of the adults there would have been trying to help (Ok, most, not any), where today, 'tis far less likely. If the kids had a cell phone with them, and the father was making sure to always have his within hearing, it'd not be quite so bad...but like people said, accidents happen, and I know I'd feel like shit if my kids hurt themselves simply because I wasn't around to tell them to stay off the top of the swings.

Honestly, I think part of the reason many people aren't interfering is because of the rising hysteria--people are afraid of going anywhere NEAR someone elses kid for fear of a parent flipping out, thinking (and screaming) kidnapper, molester, etc.

[ngc_7331]

Gods, is it really that different now? I don't have kids but I remember being about 9 and walking 1/2 mile to the crappy convenience store or walking a mile to the good one that had the pizza with just a friend or two before heading off to the park. There would be days during summer break that my parents wouldn't see me from 8am to 8pm. By the time I was 11, I was babysitting my 2 year old brother one night a week so my parents could go bowl with their league. Hell, I was babysitting my neighbor's kids by then too. And I lived in the city, not the suburbs. No one ever thought twice about it. And I was never abducted, mutilated, molested or given candy although the sweet elderly lady down the street would give all us kids lemonade on really hot days. And this wasn't -that- long ago, we're talking mid to late 80s.

[Andara Bledin]

Gods, is it really that different now?

It's not that different now. But there is a glut of "OMG! Teh KIDS!!!" news stories out that has people perceiving that it's a different world.

These days with cell phones and cameras everywhere, amber alerts, real-time news updates, it's probably safer to be a kid out on your own than it was even just 20 years ago.

As for people not getting involved now, that's not really any different than ever. The more people nearby, the less likely any one of them is to act when action is needed. I'm a kind of bossy person, so in situations like that, I tend to make sure action happens. There will be no Kitty Genovese if I'm close enough to be a witness.

^-.-^

[ngc_7331]

It's not that different now. But there is a glut of "OMG! Teh KIDS!!!" news stories out that has people perceiving that it's a different world.

Oh, I know that the world isn't really that different, I'm just shocked at how different the perception of the world is. The stuff my parents used to do then could get them a visit from CPS now. I just don't get why parents want to metaphorically wrap their kids in bubble wrap. The world has sharp edges, if you're not careful you're gonna get cut. If you don't learn how to stay away from the edges as a kid, when are you gonna learn?

[Andara Bledin]

If you don't learn how to stay away from the edges as a kid, when are you gonna learn?

Well, my former mother-in-law thought my ex would just know all that stuff when he turned 18. Automagically, or something, I guess.

^-.-^

[fireheart17]

Oh, I know that the world isn't really that different, I'm just shocked at how different the perception of the world is. The stuff my parents used to do then could get them a visit from CPS now. I just don't get why parents want to metaphorically wrap their kids in bubble wrap. The world has sharp edges, if you're not careful you're gonna get cut. If you don't learn how to stay away from the edges as a kid, when are you gonna learn?

I have a sneaking suspicion that one or two of the CPS calls are from the kidlets themselves, claiming that they're being abused because mummy or daddy said "no" to them getting the Bondage Barbie playset or the Incredible Sulk.

Joking aside though, you are right, there does seem to be a tendency to wrap kids in bubblewrap. And I do mean that literally to some degree. A kid gets covered in mud outside? "OMG ull getz da germzes and b liek X_x" Take your toddler to the supermarket? Gotta cover the child seat first in a fabric covering so that junior doesn't get herpes. (And for those who argue about comfort, chances are that YOU were not placed into one of those when you were a kid)

Also, what thread wouldn't be complete without an article by Cracked which sums up my point partially?

i get very sick of the over-paranioa about kids, thou it does seem to be worse in suburbia than the city or the rural. heck out here kids sit with their parents on tractors while still in diapers and we were working at 6! lol. city kids seem to have more freedom from the few times i've been there. roaming about in packs for safety . but all hell, i can drive around the suburbia near here and not see a sign of the kids/teens/anything.

Hell, a couple of the area schools that I may or may not end up at have mini-businesses that the kids run themselves with adult supervision.

[tropicsgoddess]

Two kids 6 and 9 years old left alone in a park...I don't think so. What if they get lured by a stranger, get lost, injure themselves or even pick up or eat things they shouldn't have (ie poisonous plants, etc)? If they were a bit older, I think it would be okay but in this case, no fucking way. It's would be with a trusted adult that I and FH know or they would come with us.

[siead_lietrathua]

i dont think we know enough about these kids to judge. they could be very intelligent kids that already grasped the rules of playing alone (dont eat stuff off the ground, dont go off with strangers, dont wander somewhere you havent been). it could be the hundredth time these kids have played by themselves with no problems happening. and, again, kids have been playing alone at that age for eons without managing to take out the town like godzilla. the over-paranoia is bad for the younglings.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Exactly; we don't know what these kids are like. As an example, as a nine year old, I was very mature for my age and perfectly able to keep an eye on my little brothers. For example, if we were out with mum and she had to go to the loo, I'd stay outside with my brothers. I also kept a tight hold on them as they were renowned for running off in different directions. This nine year old might be just as capable, in which case it's kind of silly to act as tho the pair are two toddlers left alone in a park.

[jackfaire]

My daughter is 11 and I will let her play in the yard by herself, play at the playground by herself etc but in all cases I am right there so she has an adult to go to.

We teach our kids, "Don't trust strangers" and then leave them alone in an area with nothing but strangers who the hell are they supposed to turn to if they need help?

If you don't learn how to stay away from the edges as a kid, when are you gonna learn?

Getting raped/kidnapped/molested is not an edge kids need to learn to stay away from by having it happen. I am not wrapping my kid in bubble wrap nor am I saying this guy should but yes he or another adult should be nearby to help the kids.

[anakhouri]

The "I was never kidnapped so people today shouldn't worry about it." argument kind of bothers me. Like how my dad says "When I was a kid we didn't even have car seats and I survived!" Well Dad, obviously some kids did not so that is why they have these safety regulations now.

It's great that everyone here was very mature at nine, but the police do not know how mature the kids are. They are just going on the facts as reported to them.

[PepperElf]

Link

I'm interested in other peoples' take on this. Basically, a father left his 9 & 6 year old children at a suburban park for a couple of hours to play while he did some stuff. A 'concerned mother' called the police, who charged the father with child endangerment.

At what point does letting your children play alone become acceptable? At what point is it still criminal? Obviously you can't leave a newborn alone, and just as obviously you can't (or shouldn't) hover over an 18-years-minus-one-day 24/7.

Thoughts?

some states have laws pertaining to this and some do not.


The problem however is that... not all kids behave when left on their own. and at the ages of 9 and 6 ... how are they going to overcome say, an adult that wants to kidnap or molest them? and sometimes the danger is... other children.


this is why parks and playgrounds cannot be used in place of daycare. same reason why stores won't let you do it either.


Look over at PFB. there's a letter in there right now from a kid complaining about the bullies at the mcdonald's playground. a problem that could be solved if his parents were paying attention... or even there to begin with.

[Lace Neil Singer]

My daughter is 11 and I will let her play in the yard by herself, play at the playground by herself etc but in all cases I am right there so she has an adult to go to.

We teach our kids, "Don't trust strangers" and then leave them alone in an area with nothing but strangers who the hell are they supposed to turn to if they need help?

Getting raped/kidnapped/molested is not an edge kids need to learn to stay away from by having it happen. I am not wrapping my kid in bubble wrap nor am I saying this guy should but yes he or another adult should be nearby to help the kids.

Cept that statistics are against that little theory; the vast majority of kids who are raped, kidnapped or molested get that from a family member, friend or neighbour. Strangers are far less likely to attack your kids than kindly old Uncle Joe.

http://antiviolenceproject.org/resou...d-sexual-abuse

Children are usually molested by strangers.

Need fulfilled: Allows people to feel that they can protect their children by limiting their contact with strangers. Allows perpetrators easier access to children who have only been taught to be wary of strangers.
Effects for survivors: Children may not be sure that what is happening to them is abuse, if they have only been taught to be wary of strangers. They may be reluctant to come forward and get the abuser into trouble, if the abuser is a friend or family member.
Fact: The majority children are molested by someone they know. Indeed, the people most likely to molest children are those who have the most opportunity and access to them.

http://www.ojjdp.gov/jjjournal/jjjournal598/safe.html

29 percent of the offenders studied were complete strangers to their child victims. In 71 percent of the cases, the offender and victim knew each other at least casually, and in 14 percent of the cases, the offender was a member of the child's immediate family.

http://www.mothering.com/community/t...tranger-danger

From the Polly Klaas foundation:

99.8% of the children who go missing do come home.

Nearly 90% of missing children have simply misunderstood directions or miscommunicated their plans, are lost, or have run away.
9% are kidnapped by a family member in a custody dispute.
3% are abducted by non-family members, usually during the commission of a crime such as robbery or sexual assault. The kidnapper is often someone the child knows.
Only about 100 children (a fraction of 1%) are kidnapped each year in the stereotypical stranger abductions you hear about in the news.
About half of these 100 children come home.

So basically, it serves no reasonable purpose to teach children solely "stranger danger" and to make them think that the world is a dangerous place. It is far better to teach them about "inappropriate touching" which applies to both strangers and people they know.