Debt collectors in the ER: Pay up or NO treatmtent for you!

[Mytical]

Ok as somebody who right now is unable to work, apparently has no medical coverage, and needs medical treatment..let me weigh in here. Technically a lot of things I need done are not OMGEMERGENCY, the things CAN wait..and there are things I can do without right now. Like the medicine to prevent me from bleeding again. No guarantee I would start bleeding again, no guarantee that I would end up having respiratory failure in the ICU because of the bleeding.

The surgery the 9th CAN wait..though it causes me great pain..it is not life or death right now. Sure, it can lead to a life or death situation..long past time that it would make any difference (ie regardless of if I had the surgery then or not..would be a moot point), but again..not an emergency.

There is absolutely no way right now I can pay the bills. At all. I can not work, since at times I need help with such simple tasks as getting dressed or bathing.

So..right now..I should just do without treatment? Hospitals/Doctors should just be able to look at me and say "Sorry, you can't pay..go away." ? Pardon me if I am not so enthusiastic about that.

[blas87]

I've had the same headache for going on a month now, and I don't want to go to the doctor because I'm afraid instead of listening to me and giving me something for chronic/cluster headaches or anxiety (which I know I have), they'll give me xrays and MRIs that my insurance barely covers, and I'll end up in collections again or end up having absolutely no money at all, defeating the purpose of moving home to save money.

[telecom_goddess]

I've had the same headache for going on a month now, and I don't want to go to the doctor because I'm afraid instead of listening to me and giving me something for chronic/cluster headaches or anxiety (which I know I have), they'll give me xrays and MRIs that my insurance barely covers, and I'll end up in collections again or end up having absolutely no money at all, defeating the purpose of moving home to save money.

Don't go to a GP for headaches, go to a neurologist that specializes in headaches/migraines. I've been going to mine for years now and no MRI's, nothing like that. She's the one who led me to a sleep clinic though where I got my sleep apnea diagnosed. She's done nothing but wonderful things for me.

I"m finding GP's are basically worthless when it comes to specific issues.

[kamn]

A point you might wish to consider: You don't have to get those MRI's. Tell them, you don't think you can afford it, can s/he work without the MRI, xray, etc. Just to try their best guess. Most of the time, the MRI is either a shot in the dark, or just to confirm something they already know. At least they do over here.

[blas87]

Thankfully, I didn't need any tests

I realized today that if I wanted to get out of this....horrible slump of mine where I feel so shitty that all I want to do at the gym is peddle on a bike and sit at home in my pjs cuz my head hurts so bad......well, I finally went.

I got some medication I can start taking before bed. I am hoping they work.

[Nyoibo]

I"m finding GP's are basically worthless when it comes to specific issues.

That's why there are specialists in the first place, the whole definition of GP is general practitioner, they deal with general medicine, not specifics.

[blas87]

If it helps, if you ever do go to an ER or Urgent Care, get a doc that has "Internal Medicine" on their badge.

[HYHYBT]

So..right now..I should just do without treatment? Hospitals/Doctors should just be able to look at me and say "Sorry, you can't pay..go away." ? Pardon me if I am not so enthusiastic about that.

That's far from the best possible situation... but how far should that go? How big a bill should someone be able to run up before those providing the service say "no more until you pay?" keeping in mind that until you do pay, they've essentially worked for free, including major overhead?

The tactics of these bill collectors are horrendous, whether legal or not... but... I don't know. I'm thinking of my Dad and stepmom here. I know they will work with anybody willing to work with them; there are some they don't charge every time if they're out of work (though if there's an insurance company involved they can't *not* charge, strangely enough) and some they've let pay $5 a month. But (as I've been told) the ones who will pay *nothing* on an old balance voluntarily are another story and have to pay for what they're getting when they get it... and don't mention to either of them people who deliberately have an optional procedure done right before filing for bankruptcy.

[Duelist925]

That's far from the best possible situation... but how far should that go? How big a bill should someone be able to run up before those providing the service say "no more until you pay?" keeping in mind that until you do pay, they've essentially worked for free, including major overhead?

What if the situation is life threatening? Or simply life altering? If a condition or injury, if left untreated, means a guy can't work...isn't it in the docs best interest to make sure the guy can work, so he DOES eventually get paid?

If the injury becomes worse due to not being allowed treatment, does the man have grounds for a lawsuit? "I lost my leg because it became infected after they refused to treat it. " etc, kinda thing. what price put on a limb, a sense, or a life?

Thats the problem I have with this kinda thing in a nutshell..."Where do we draw the line?" There isn't an easy answer to that question.

[Mytical]

For the stuff they CAN treat, I do use the local clinic (open 1 day a week), which is free. My doctors know of my lack of job/funds/etc and are not charging me..so I am good. As much as this will label me 'socialist' and may cause some issues..there are some things I fiercely believe.

I believe that there are certain things people, as a rule, should have access to regardless of financial situations/etc. Food, Health Care, and Shelter. Now I am not talking Sirloin steak for food, or Mansions for shelter..I am not talking gadgets and gismos and Porches for all..just BASIC things..a little human dignity in tough times.

*shrugs* So I am a bleeding heart, I think we should lift up our fellow man..sue me.

[Andara Bledin]

Considering that giving people access to base-line food, health care, and shelter are all cheaper than dealing with the consequences of those same people going without, I'd call it enlightened self-interest, myself.

^-.-^

[bara]

..sue me.

Sue you for what?

[HYHYBT]

It's a bad system, still. Everyone should have X, then there should be public funding for X. We do not mandate that grocery stores give food away, nor that landlords allow people to remain in their apartments no matter how behind the rent is.

[Panacea]

You think this wasn't planned? They have a bank of attorneys telling them what they can do.

No, this is a test case. They WANT this to go to court so they can get a ruling in their favour (and given the political situation in the US right now, that is not an outlandish belief) so they have a precedent and can start extortion practices legally.

The hospital or debt collection company will lose, because it won't go to court. EMTALA violations are handled by CMS, the agency that runs Medicare. If a violation is committed, then the hospital loses its ability to collect Medicare payments, which would shut it down. The patient can certainly sue, but has to prove damages, which is why the lady in the original story isn't suing.

Ditto for HIPPA. These are regulatory violations. The hospitals can be fined, but it's handled by the regulators not the courts.

Had a debt collector calling me, 2 of the three people I managed to talk to were allright. But that third was a major bitch.

"You NEED to pay this or else?"
Or else what? I dont own a house, my car is paid for and (at the time) Im not working? Taking me to court wont help since I just plain out cant pay it?
"Well call the police!"
Go ahead, they cant do anything except issue a court notice.
"They will arrest you"
For what being poor? I could easily report you right now for empty threats.
<click>

My response to this would be, "I don't NEED to do anything but pay taxes and die."

Threatening you with the police is a violation of the law and you can file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. It's a $10,000 fine. Last time a debt collector pulled that on me, that was my response. Shut her up real quick.

If it helps, if you ever do go to an ER or Urgent Care, get a doc that has "Internal Medicine" on their badge.

I'd prefer a Board Certified doctor in Emergency Medicine in the ER.

[Duelist925]

It's a bad system, still. Everyone should have X, then there should be public funding for X. We do not mandate that grocery stores give food away, nor that landlords allow people to remain in their apartments no matter how behind the rent is.

But there are shelters for those without homes, and places to feed those without food. Multiple types of both. There are alternatives given to people--they are often under-supported and under funded, but they exist.

Why not something similar for those without proper medical care?