Procedures were followed. We did nothing wrong.

[Seifer]

Hi all - Mr Unpopular here

I'd love to see the reactions if a weapon or bomb had been passed and used on the plane.

I think the pat-down would have been unecessary, but a quick once-through the metal detector would have been sufficient. However, looking at that article I can only see the mother's side and her language is ... how can I say it, emotive? I get the feeling that she's hamming this up.

Rapscallion

I can see why they wanted to give the girl a pat down. I think at that point they weren't looking for weapons (otherwise a trip through the metal detector would suffice), but were instead looking for drugs. I assume trying to get drugs through security by way of a young child is a method that has been used before, and is why they demanded a pat down.

I think where everything fell apart was when they chased the girl around security and ordered her to stop crying. If they explained to her what happened, helped calm her down, and quickly checked her for drugs or whatever they were looking for, I doubt the situation would have escalated.

[s_stabeler]

No, they were apparently looking for a weapon- the agent suggested a gun had been passed off, even though the kid had nowhere to put anything, let alone a gun-
but seriously, WTF was wrong with those agents? first, why not let the kid go back through the metal detector? if there was a gun, it'd be identified. Second, even if the pat-down was required, why the screaming? The kid had only run to hug her grandmother.

As for the kid having nightmares- if the mother's account is accurate, it's possible that's pretty much true. The kid was confused about what was happening, and had probably been warned about going off with strangers... it's not difficult to think the kid thought the TSA agents wanted to hurt her. It's probably less nightmares about what actually happened and more ones about what she feared could have happened. Not to mention, the kid probably thought she was in trouble for hugging her grandmother- how is the kid supposed to react to that?

[Slytovhand]

But she said the family's main concern was the lack of understanding from TSA agents that they were dealing with a 4-year-old child, not a terror suspect.<snip>

Brademeyer, of Missoula, Mont., wrote a public Facebook post last week about the April 15 incident, claiming TSA treated her daughter "no better than if she had been a terrorist.

Actually, at that stage, she was a terror suspect!!! The whole security and screening process is based on the 'guilty until proven innocent' idea, which is why I refuse to travel to America (not this, but the biometric scans and records).

Don't worry Raps, I've been unpopular too we can have our own little club....

[Nekojin]

The whole TSA screening thing is so much security theater - it's there to make you feel safer, not to make you be safer. Other measures put into effect at the same time (namely, more secure, locking cockpit doors, keeping them locked for the duration of the flight) have already dealt with the majority of the threats involved with hijackings. Bombs - even body bombs - are covered under procedures that TSA screenings typically don't catch.

It's a huge, inefficient, authoritarian boondoggle, and sadly, it's not going to go away any time soon.

Something something security for freedom something something.

[Silverharp]

I know, dumb right? But that's how it was. Wouldn't surprise me if these security guys have had their heads fucked right up from so many different rules and regulations that they don't know what to do.

I've got a friend in the TSA, and yeah, the amount of fuckitall that gets passed around from on high is...well, makes it seem like the people in charge are high.

The thing is, the TSA screeners not only risk their jobs, but their freedom if they improperly screen a passenger. Seriously, they could risk federal charges.
Sucks, huh?

[Slytovhand]

I've got a friend in the TSA, and yeah, the amount of fuckitall that gets passed around from on high is...well, makes it seem like the people in charge are high.

The thing is, the TSA screeners not only risk their jobs, but their freedom if they improperly screen a passenger. Seriously, they could risk federal charges.
Sucks, huh?

That makes a lot of sense, though. After all, if someone does want to bomb a plane, having a friend in the TSA to let them through is exactly what you want! So, any TSA officer who doesn't do the job to the fullest is going to be seen as a potential terrorist themselves.

[siead_lietrathua]

kids are taught as soon as they get basic remembering skills to NOT go away from their parents in a public place, to NOT go anywhere with a stranger, and to NOT let a stranger touch their body, expecially in "certian places". no wonder the kid was freaking out!
those TSA agents need to take a class in common sense.

[Greenday]

kids are taught as soon as they get basic remembering skills to NOT go away from their parents in a public place, to NOT go anywhere with a stranger, and to NOT let a stranger touch their body, expecially in "certian places". no wonder the kid was freaking out!
those TSA agents need to take a class in common sense.

Well, seeing as no one mentioned anything about touching her in "certain places" and it's not like they were just dragging the kid off, I don't get where you are going with this. There would have been time to explain to her what was going on if she didn't freak out over her grandmother.

[bara]

There would have been time to explain to her what was going on if she didn't freak out over her grandmother.

Except she didnt freak out till the TSA people started yelling at her. If they had simply said to the mother/grandmother that because the child had contact with someone who had not cleared security they would have to search her calmly, instead of yelling at a 4-year old things may have been much simpler.

Even if they didnt yell, a 4-year old may not be rational with strangers telling her what to do in any event. They should have spoken directly to the parents first. Thats what set the whole thing off.

[jackfaire]

They could have done everything right and both the blog post and the mother would still be blasting TSA for daring to ever suspect her child of being part of a terrorist organization after all no one ever in the history of the world has ever used a kid with a grenade or a bomb strapped to their chest to kill unsuspecting people who overlooked the inherent danger of a child getting past security check points unchecked.

Plus it's not just federal charges. Imagine you ignore points of protocol because hey they are disabled/underage/elderly and then they are why a flight blows up. That is on your head for the rest of your life. Because you didn't do your job in order to avoid offending someone's sensibilities.

Kids take their cues from their parents if the kid freaked out about a pat down it's more likely because the mom was herself freaking out at the very thought that her little angel might be suspected even though that is the same reaction a terrorist would have to try and seem like a legitimately offended mom.

I understand being upset in the moment I mean hell gut reaction and all of that. But after the fact condemning not the way that it was done but the fact it was done at all is stupid and shows remarkable ignorance about the way the world works.


EDIT:

How terrorist group would have done it.

Kid who ran back to hug grandma would have to then walk through the metal detectors again to reenter secure area. Thus whatever you pass off to her won't be something that sets off metal detectors. Child is young so you want to pass her the thing you need her to have after she goes through the detector and then "spots" grandma that way it doesn't look suspicious if she is carrying something and fidgets with it or anything because too much will be going on. Now grandma passes through with nothing on her and retrieves the item from the grandchild on the secure side of the detector with no one the wiser after all who but the most asshole of TSA agents would dare ensure a child wasn't carrying anything dangerous.

[AdminAssistant]

Is it bad that the most surprising thing to me was, "Wichita has an airport?" (Seriously, it's the armpit of the Plains.)

[Seifer]

Well, seeing as no one mentioned anything about touching her in "certain places" and it's not like they were just dragging the kid off, I don't get where you are going with this.

In the article, it's stated that the TSA agents said they needed to search the girl for weapons and at first refused to let the mother come with them. That means the TSA wanted to give the girl a private screening without her mother or grandmother present. I think that's enough to scare any four year old.

[Andara Bledin]

Don't forget that the article also mentions that the girl's school just recently put the fear of "stranger danger" in the child's head, too. She and the rest of her class were likely cautioned to not let people they didn't know do what a bunch of strangers (the TSA) were trying to do.

^-.-^

[Silverharp]

It sounds like the biggest problem was that the TSA agents were treating her like a small adult, not like a confused 4 year old. shit just rolled downhill from there.
And yeah, I agree with a previous comment there, no matter WHAT they did, they'd be being blasted right now because of the current trend of blaming the TSA agents and not the confusing, often contradictory rules and regs that they have to follow.

[Hyena Dandy]

The TSA rules and regulations are a mess. They're not really protecting people, and by no fault of the agents. What we're working with is still the same basic PROCESS that we had in 2000. They just tag bits and doodads onto it to make it 'safer' every time something goes wrong.

More rules don't make things easier, though. More rules make things more complicated. More rules = More loopholes.

What we really need to do is scrap it and build it back up from the bottom up.