Sophomore kicked out of honors class for cheating

[Arcade Man D]

The problem is, as it seems anyway, that the school is violating its own rules. Maybe not. Maybe I'm missing the part where the honors program contract says "kicked out of the class for cheating".

Umm.... "kicked out of the class for any instance of plagiarism" is the bog-standard honors contract. As in an honors contract that doesn't involve that is outside the norm.

[Greenday]

The problem is, as it seems anyway, that the school is violating its own rules. Maybe not. Maybe I'm missing the part where the honors program contract says "kicked out of the class for cheating".


ANd yeah, anyone arguing for the kid sounds pretty immature and stupid, right? And with a big fat sense of entitlement?

That's exactly how the rule mongers sound to me. Stupid, immature, and with a big fat sense of entitlement that somehow allows them to play god with the rulebook.

This kid needs to cheat in order to pass a class which is harder than the ordinary version of the class. Do you see any reason why he deserves to stay?

[bara]

In many schools honors classes either can count as college credit or at least look better on entrance papers. Cheating in college is right out (unless you are an awesome running back).

Ive seen and heard of kids getting kicked right the hell out of college for cheating on the first offence.

[LexiaFira]

i still think the dad and student should get over it -easier said than done - considering he is still IN SCHOOL just not in honors class. the fact that he was caught cheating now means they will watch him closer as the student has proven he cannot be trusted. its sad though, its parents like this that make it that much more difficult for teachers and schools.

[Greenday]

In many schools honors classes either can count as college credit or at least look better on entrance papers. Cheating in college is right out (unless you are an awesome running back).

Ive seen and heard of kids getting kicked right the hell out of college for cheating on the first offence.

I've never heard of an honors class counting as college credit. AP classes yea, but those are above honors level.

And I wouldn't say cheating is right out. I've seen people get away with a lot. My senior year someone copied a ton of stuff off a wikipedia article for her first paper of the semester. This was a 400 level class (as high as it gets). For some reason the teacher didn't kick her out of the class. She gave her a 0 instead (and since that paper was worth 25% of our grade she was screwed) but still. I don't understand why she even deserved a chance.

[AdminAssistant]

Zero on the assignment is usually a 'plea bargain' when it comes to cases of plagiarism. When an instructor suspects plagiarism, they have to gather up their evidence, write everything up, and report it to whatever department handles Academic Misconduct. Then the student is notified. The student can either 1) fight it and go before the Academic Misconduct committee or 2) accept a zero on the assignment. Most will take the zero, and every instructor that I know would rather just give the zero than sit through academic misconduct hearings. Do you want to sit there while a student, their friends, and their parents cry and wail about how wonderful their baby is and how dare you accuse them of anything wrong?

Now, this is for the first offense of the, "didn't attribute sources/got most of their paper from Wikipedia" type of plagiarism. Second strike, you get kicked out of the class, typically with some kind of mark on your transcript. Third strike is expulsion from the university. More serious offenses, such as operating an illegal paper writing ring or selling/buying exam answers are also different. YMMV depending on the university.

[Cymberleah]

I've never heard of an honors class counting as college credit. AP classes yea, but those are above honors level.

When I was in high school (back a bit ago now, but still...) I took a handful of honors courses that were accredited through a local community college. I got credit for two courses of Spanish (III in junior year, IV in senior), physics, calculus, and I think one or two more. I also got AP credit for English and History. With that and extra classes once I got to college I managed to graduate in three years. So while I often took five classes a quarter and never less than four, I managed to save a full year's worth of tuition. Which was totally worth it.

Funny thing, though. I never had to cheat to get my grades.

And while it may seem arbitrary that people get bounced out of class for silly little things like cheating, I know for a fact that I don't want to drive over a bridge built by an engineer who cheated his way through chemistry. And with the end of secretaries as a career path it's even more important that people in managerial positions know how to write and research basic information as no one is going to do it for them anymore.

[Greenday]

It's not like it would have been a tough case. More than half the paper was plagiarized and it would be whole complete paragraphs copied.

[AdminAssistant]

It would have to be a really really rock solid case. If the student has anything else going on in their life (illness, stressful home situation, anything), the whole thing can be thrown out. In the eyes of the administration, students = customers.

[Slytovhand]

I've seen papers where students forgot to take out the footnote references from the paper. But, then again, I had a fellow teacher who told her students to email her the homework (cos the lazy sods didn't do it for the class...). About half a dozen forgot to change the original student's name at the top, so she got about 7 papers from 'Angel'

Similarly, I've received homework in which about 3 or 4 of them obviously copied from somewhere - complete with the same mistate and the same word I've never heard of.

Fortunately for them, this counts for nothing - but gives me an idea on who to keep an eye on later!

DrF, from your last post, you obviously didn't read mine - to be in the honours class, the kid had to sign a pledge acknowledging that any form of cheating would result in instant expulsion from that class... what's the issue here?

Cymberleah - why would you care if an engineer cheated on chemistry??? I don't see the direct relevance there...

[Arcade Man D]

Cymberleah - why would you care if an engineer cheated on chemistry??? I don't see the direct relevance there...

Because they're a chemical engineer?

[Duelist925]

*snip*

Cymberleah - why would you care if an engineer cheated on chemistry??? I don't see the direct relevance there...

I can think of a few reasons

A student who cheats in one class, may cheat in others (such as required knowledge for engineering....which would mean badly made stuff!)

His particular engineering job may require some knowledge of chemicals--perhaps a demolitionist who gets the formular wrong for a controlled explosion? So its not so...controlled?

[Greenday]

Cymberleah - why would you care if an engineer cheated on chemistry??? I don't see the direct relevance there...

If an engineering major has to cheat his way through general chemistry, he doesn't deserve to be an engineer. There's no excuse for a science major to not pass the basic classes of the other science areas.

[SkullKing]

Not to mention that many times an engineer needs to solve problems that are not boxed nicely in their area of expertise.

For example let's say you a motor is not burning fuel efficiently.

So you create install a computerized device to better manage the flow, of fuel and air.

You are a mechanic engineer with a chemical problem end an electronic solution.

This kind of stuff in common in engineering

[jackfaire]

I've never heard of an honors class counting as college credit. AP classes yea, but those are above honors level.

In my school AP classes were the honors classes. I don't know what other kind of class would be honors classes.

I can understand kicking him out of honors classes I mean they are supposed to look good for colleges so yeah if he cheated to get the grades for them then I wouldn't want to give the student a fake leg up.