Restaurant detains group of diners for failing to pay mandatory tip

[Slytovhand]

I think the problem with the whole situation is the word 'gratuity' - which has a completely different meaning from the word 'service fee'. I wonder how it would go down in the law courts... as 'mandatory' and 'gratuity' are mutually exclusive terms, by linguistic definition.

Detaining people until the police arrive - did they actually break a law? If not, there's a whole stack of stink going to that restaurant (if they really want to push it!) And, even if they did, can you detain the whole group? I don't think so!

[Gravekeeper]

Well, this restaurant is going under inside of a 6 months. Legalities aside, talk about committing business suicide. Getting your restaurant splash across the national news for locking customers in the restaurant for refusing to tip? You may as well shut the place down now. The publicity is going to kill it. Its already going down in flames on every review site on the web. She also has the Better Business Bureau on them now. Not to mention any possible lawsuit from the customers.

Legally speaking, she locked the doors ( Possibly false imprisonment. Definately a fire code violation. ) over store policy. Store policy is not law no matter how they word it on the menu. You cannot make gratuity mandatory. Mandatory gratuity is a paradox and has been ruled as such in court in other states. Its not legally enforcable.

If they worded it as a "service charge" that also isn't legally enforcable as the customers have a solid case for said service not being delivered. As that's their entire reason for refusal to begin with. In which case yet again, enjoy your lawsuit. >.>

Either way, the manager signed the restaurant's death warrant.

[Canarr]

I'm sympathetic to both sides when it comes to large parties, though. A large party is more work for the server, with a high likelihood of less tip, than the same number of people split up over a larger number of tables.

How is that, exactly? I've heard that before, but it doesn't really fit my own experiences working bar and waiting tables. Having nine people at one table, vs. three tables of three people each, doesn't make much of a difference. Again, in my experience.

[eltf177]

What Gravekeeper said...

[Gravekeeper]

How is that, exactly? I've heard that before, but it doesn't really fit my own experiences working bar and waiting tables. Having nine people at one table, vs. three tables of three people each, doesn't make much of a difference. Again, in my experience.

Huge difference, but not for the servers exactly. For the kitchen staff who now needs to ensure 9 meals come out at the same time instead of 3.

[ExRetailDrone]

Huge difference, but not for the servers exactly. For the kitchen staff who now needs to ensure 9 meals come out at the same time instead of 3.

And if the kitchen staff ends up mis-timing something and the meals don't come out at the same time, the servers will be the ones to hear about it >.<

[Canarr]

More stressful for the kitchen staff, no question; it's a lot harder to time nine meals than it is to time 3 x 3. But, unless I'm mistaken, the gratuity - even the "service fee" charged for larger parties - doesn't go to the kitchen, it goes to the wait staff. So, again: why should that be? And "Well, they have to deal with the fallout when other parts of the staff don't do their job right!" isn't really an argument.

[crashhelmet]

If they worded it as a "service charge" that also isn't legally enforcable as the customers have a solid case for said service not being delivered. As that's their entire reason for refusal to begin with. In which case yet again, enjoy your lawsuit. >.>

Actually, it is. If it is a service charge, it's a part of the bill and not an option. If you try and skip out of any portion of the bill, it's essentially "shoplifting" and you can and will be prosecuted for it. Their detention of the customers is basically a "Citizen's Arrest."

[Andara Bledin]

First, a contract has two sides. A one-sided contract is actually illegal. Thus, if service is not provided, then it should not be paid for.

Second, as mentioned above, a "citizen's arrest" requires a declaration that an arrest is being made. Either way, if it is found to be without merit, whether it's a false arrest or unlawful detainer, it still falls out on the restaurant.

^-.-^

[crashhelmet]

First, a contract has two sides. A one-sided contract is actually illegal. Thus, if service is not provided, then it should not be paid for.

^-.-^

Ordering a single item would be enough to show agreement of the contract. After all, they could've left and gone somewhere else.

[Andara Bledin]

Ordering a single item would be enough to show agreement of the contract. After all, they could've left and gone somewhere else.

I never said there was not an agreed contract. I said that for the diners to be held to their side, the restaurant would have had to hold up theirs. The diners claim that they did not receive the service implied in the contract, thus the restaurant was in breech, rendering it null.

They likely weren't thinking along those lines, but that's how it would play out, legally speaking.

^-.-^

[Slytovhand]

What's the implication in 'service charge'?

[Racket_Man]

Actually, from what I understand, legally, if a server does not make at least minimum wage with both wage and tips combined, then the employer is required to make up the shortfall. In practice, I sincerely doubt this happens much, if at all.

^-.-^

actually with most of the computerized POS systems in use today AND all of the government required reporting it DOES happen quite a lot. AND if the employee does figure out the employer is indeed NOT paying them and files a legit complaint, the employeer is generally going to get alien anal probed BIG TIME for wage and hour violations and the fines for those is not cheap not to mention the legal costs AND asessed damages to current and previous employees.

How is that, exactly? I've heard that before, but it doesn't really fit my own experiences working bar and waiting tables. Having nine people at one table, vs. three tables of three people each, doesn't make much of a difference. Again, in my experience.

I have been a sever and a cook and and a manager and am currently a pizza delivery driver I can speak to this.

yes I have had large tables in a stores that did NOT have a mandatory "gratuity or service charge" for large parties. if it is a large enough party one server usually get that table and only that table so they can concentrate their efforts in an efficent and singular manner.

First of all taking the order is usually a royal pain in ass esp if you have a mix of adults and children. first you have to get the drinks straight. everone seems to order out of logical turn.

then there is ordering appitisers. then ordering the main course. again some know what they want other dawdle along and only truely make up their mind at the absolute last minute ALONG with multipule special requests and subs (if allowed) and manner of doneness.

ALL of the above takes concentration, lots of gritting of the teeth, laughing at stupid jokes, some feined conversation, good memory, a external "good attitude" and a smiling face.

getting everything right is like watching Fred Astare and Ginger Rogers doing a perfectly executed 10 minute dance number. it is a thing of beauty. BUT behind the scenes, experience, lots of practice, the shoving down into the deep recesses of the mind thought of killing one joker in the group come into play.

If a restaurant does display either signs and/or prommently on their menu that parties of a certain size or above will be assessed a say 15% fee of any type, sorry you skip out on ANY protion of the bill and that is stealing period. that would be like saying "Well I do not want to pay for one fo the meals so here 90% of that bill. deal with it"


take this example for whatever you wish and here I WISH to whatever diety that we had a manditory service charge

I worked at a restaurant next to a softball complex. one very slow Sunday afternoon when it was me, a server and on cook a team came in to eat. they got all the bells and whistles appetisers, beer, pizza and deseart.

they ran me and server ragged. then they thought it would be fun to start oipenning the parm, crushed pepper, salt and peppers shakers and dump them all over the tables. they then poured soda and beer all over the pizza pans and napkins and placemats. They then started a food fight with.....


THEMSELVES

leaving me and the server A VERY BIG MESS TO CLEAN UP.


Can you guess what the tip was???????? If you can not figure it out think for just one second.

Now throw in that I am now a pizza delivery driver. we get huge orders sometimes in the $300 - 400 range. that is a LOT of pizzas. I have to lug bags and bags of pies from parking lots to conference rooms, lunch/break rooms, or some office that can the ANYWHERE in the building. from a simple office floor to a HUGE manufacturing plant. this can be ANYWHERE close to the farthest edges of the facility. often we we get orders that are multipule orders to the same facility just delivered to DIFFERENT places in the same BIUG HUGE FUCKING plant.

can you again guess the tips I (or others) get for such effort?????? think carefully this time........

[HYHYBT]

Raising hand: all you got for it was $0 cash plus trouble for your run taking longer than usual?

[Racket_Man]

I was hoping someone would get my scarcasm.

but yes you are correct $0 was the tip in the first story and in the second example there have been many $0 or joke tips for those huge orders.

I heard a story from driver on another board. He delivered a substansial order to a church. the minister told him "Well your tip went into the poor box". how the driver did NOT bash the guys head in or at the very least shoot somne eye daggers at him, I will never know.