Cops -- to serve and protect?

[The Shadow]

The following quote comes from the website of the Libertarian Alliance -- an organization in the UK

http://www.libertarian.co.uk/

The idea that the main function of the police is to protect life and property requires a firm resolve not to read the newspapers. There was a time within living memory when the worst the police did was to resell porn and drugs, and license burglars, and hang round public lavatories arresting any man desperate enough to fancy them. In addition to this, to be fair, they did provide the occasional protective service.

"But this is history. The police nowadays are little more than an increasingly trigger-happy pro-government militia. They spend much of their time listening to radio discussions in search of people to harass for saying something politically incorrect. If they do leave the fortified compounds we used to call police stations, it is to arrest householders for protecting their lives and property, or to breathalyse every tenth driver on the local A roads. The police are politically and financially corrupt. They are personally dangerous to be near. The only thing still to be said in their favour is a tendency to laziness and incompetence. Thanks to that, we do not get all the oppression we pay for.

"England has become a country where if you see a police officer knocking on your door, you panic.

Well! That author is no fan of the police, to put it mildly. But his statement reflects an increasingly common attitude towards cops nowadays -- and not just in the UK either. There was a time when this sort of attitude was limited to criminals, gangsters and teenagers, but now all kinds of ordinary, respectable people are losing faith in cops. Some even go so far as to question the need for them at all. While I think that's a bit extreme, I can kind of see their point. The reality is they have no legal obligation to protect us. If you've ever experienced a burglary or property crime, you know just how pointless it is to expect them to apprehend the person responsible and get your property back, to give you just a few examples. So it's fair to ask -- what ARE cops good for anyway? How do the rest of you feel?

[powerboy]

Great post by the way.

I would love to live in a city where the police will actually do something. The police are too serve and protect. Yeah right, unless you live on the nicer side of town, but even then.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Holy crap, are you quoting me?

I mean, I don't remember typing that, but I sure remember saying it. A lot. Well, not the part about England, but the rest of it, yeah.

I don't mean to offend anyone who is a cop or who has cops in the family. But I live in South Carolina. And it's a pretty dismal situation here.

Clearly, we do need something like cops, I'm not crazy enough to think we don't. And fortunately, there are enough to decent, competent ones out there to at least keep SOME of the anarchy to a somewhat manageable level. However, the number of ones that are little more than armed thugs and government-appointed bullies is so overwhelming that it's reasonable to worry when you see one coming.

[protege]

Where I live...the cops do a pretty good job of dealing with crime. We simply don't have any...other than the occasional vandalism. Most of it is simply because the borough is so small, that most people know each other. The only thing that sucks, is that because there's no crime...the cops tend to set up speed traps. They *will* bust you for going as little as 5mph over the speed limit. Can't really complain about that, especially with all the little kids around, and the twisty streets.

Now, the Pittsburgh *city* cops just suck. Some of it is simply because there aren't enough. Some of it is because they simply don't care. And yes, some of it is because of the city's financial problems. What I do know, is downtown is pretty safe, even at night. The inner city areas? Not so much. You'd be extremely foolish to enter some of them alone at night...

[crazylegs]

Right then, where do I start!

I can only talk about the area I live in (South West England) so take it as it is.

In the UK (at least) the Police *do* have a legal duty to protect you (under the HRA 1998), failure to do so may infringe your rights under that Act (right to life etc.)

The Police (again in the UK) have never had more hoops and jumps to get through to do things than ever before. Say I want to stand on a corner to wait to see who comes out of a house, this requires authorisaton under current legislation. If the Police want to pull you over, they must have grounds to do so (dangerous driving etc), if they want to search you, again there must be grounds (strong smell of cannabis for example).

"But this is history. The police nowadays are little more than an increasingly trigger-happy pro-government militia."

Uh, the UK Police are unarmed.

"They spend much of their time listening to radio discussions in search of people to harass for saying something politically incorrect."

The Police certainly don't listen to the radio, however they are Lawfully Obliged to investigate and complaint received

"If they do leave the fortified compounds we used to call police stations, "

The nick I work from is essentially a house. They may be fortified in Norther Ireland, but on the Mainland I can assure you they're not

I

You will only get arrested if you break the law, I belive this will be refering to the MARTIN case where he shot someone in the back while they were running away. Or the incident where the householder stabbed an intruder once while they (the intruder) was in the house (so far not a problem) however the householder than follwed them outside sat on top of the bleeding burglar then stabbed him a further 20+ times.

or to breathalyse every tenth driver on the local A roads.

This is unlawful, you will only be pulled over for the following
Vehicle checkpoints
Dangerous Driving
Seen to be acting suspiciously (must be able to prove this)
Vehicle Defect.
You will only have to provide a breath sample if you then smell of Alcohol
Randomly pulling over people to test their breath is (I believe) unlawful.

The police are politically and financially corrupt.

Wrong, they are political pawns, they get given new directives, targets and paperwork on the whim of the political party in power to make (the political party) look good.

They are personally dangerous to be near.

Really? The use of CS is rare (I know many officers with 10+ years who have never used it), the use of Batons is rare (see last brackets), you may be restrained and cuffed but only if you fail to comply.

The only thing still to be said in their favour is a tendency to laziness and incompetence. Thanks to that, we do not get all the oppression we pay for.

Police are monitered far more than any other given organisation, you can attend Police Community Consultative Meetings where the Local Inspector (the person incharge of Policing where you live) will each quarter sit in a predetermined meeting hall and field questions, the Head of the Local Police Authority will also be there as will several officers.

In addition local policing is obliged to contact all local groups and determine the policing priorites according to the concerns raised. Not only do they have to do this but they must also prove they are doing it.

"I don't mean to offend anyone who is a cop or who has cops in the family"

None Taken.

[Boozy]

I grew up despising cops, despite the fact that neither myself nor my family had ever been in trouble with the law.

We had a small-town municipal police force. I don't know what the qualifications were to join (other than being a complete douche, it would seem). Just one small example to indicate how bad it was: My brother, the most law-abiding person I know, was pulled over nearly two dozen times in one year. Various reasons were given. You rolled a stop. (Bullshit) We're doing random car checks and we want you to consent to a search (Like hell). Your car vaguely matches the description of another vehicle reported stolen (It has four wheels).

My brother wasn't singled out. This happened to every young man under the age of about 30. Every single one of them was treated like a criminal in their own town.

Eventually, we got tired of it. The town basically told the province that we wanted the police force gone and an OPP (provincial police) detachment instead.

It's been the best thing! These officers are great. The OPP have very strict requirements to join. Competition is so fierce that a four-year degree from a university is pretty much mandatory. This eliminates a lot of those candidates who just want to carry a gun and be a big-shot asshole; if you need to commit to a degree, you have to be serious about serving the public. These officers are genuinely devoted to the safety and health of their communities.

[tropicsgoddess]

Great post by the way.

I would love to live in a city where the police will actually do something. The police are too serve and protect. Yeah right, unless you live on the nicer side of town, but even then.

To neglect and self-serve should be the motto for cops. Some time last year, IIRC there were a few cops in my county that were caught by the feds in an organized crime sting. Not only that, but there was the county Sheriff that was caught for tax evasion and mail fraud. I can't stand how these cops think the badge means they're entitled to be an authoritative asshole who is above the law.

[Slytovhand]

My Gods!!! Some people really live in sucky-country!

I don't think all coppers are saints - and unfortunately, I get proven correct. Just recently, one of hte local state drug squads was done for one of the largest trafficking operations in the country.

But that goes to prove a point too... there are others out there who are good at the job, and want to do it for the 'right' reasons!

I've seen a lot of disgruntlement towards the constabulary - even out of the mouths of babes (certainly those kids were only about 6 years old...<sigh>), but as Crazy said, they're at the mercy of politicians. It takes money to train and put people on the streets where there is always the possibility that they may not make it back.

And what other job gets more of the raw end of the stick than the police? Any other occupation which regularly hears 'Never there when you want them, but always when you don't??'

Remember - they are human. There aren't too many careers where you can actually effectively pick a personality constant - that you automatically know what sort of person someone will be just because they've chosen that job...

[blas87]

I have never understood why pulling over every single Yuppie with a brake light out was a higher priority to the police than patrolling bad neighborhoods and doing drug busts.

[Pedersen]

I have never understood why pulling over every single Yuppie with a brake light out was a higher priority to the police than patrolling bad neighborhoods and doing drug busts.

Let's see, what would I rather do tonight?

I can sit around on a main street, watch for busted tail lights, give tickets for that. And if any of them swear at me, I can give tickets for that, possibly arrest. And that'll be the end of it. No real risk, except maybe to my blood pressure if one of them figures out how to push my buttons. And even then, I can go ape shit on the guy, and relieve the stress easily.

Or, I can go through a dangerous neighborhood looking for people who are willing to kill me if they think I've seen what they were doing. I won't really be able to get out of my car, either, since most of the members of the neighborhood don't like what my uniform stands for, and therefore would just as soon spit on me as help me.

Gee, blas87, I don't know why any cop would choose the first over the second. Can't think of a reason, can't understand it.

Complete mystery to me.

[Cutenoob]

I have never understood why pulling over every single Yuppie with a brake light out was a higher priority to the police than patrolling bad neighborhoods and doing drug busts.

Well, let's see if I get this right.
My stepdad was a cop for 20 something years. I asked him a very similar question, and it boiled down to this:

If a police officer finds a person who's got a busted taillight, car that doesn't meet DMV codes or something similar, usually that's because the person does not care about the law. Most people who FIND OUT their brake light is broke will fix it. The people who say, Eh, screw it, I've got more things to worry about...are usually people who disrespect and disobey laws. If a person is willing to break a small law and have no qualms with it, they aren't very bothered by breaking a bigger one.

Stepdad was Officer of the Year 2 years in a row. He received it because he had the most arrests ending in conviction (IIRC). He would stop taillight people, red light runners, people who disobeyed the small laws. Following protocol, he would also (more often than not) find something ELSE illegal (possession, distribution, warrant on person..etc etc) about those perps in the car, and arrest them.


I was pulled over one night in a very dark dingy area, not well lit. I was on the edge of an Army base where it was adjacent to a highway - so both State and Fed (army soldiers) patrolled it. I got pulled over. My friend/passenger was hyperventilating and freaking out. I said wait a god blasted minute. Have we killed anyone? No. Have we strangled any relatives? No. Have we done anything in the last 6 mos that's illegal? No (figure longer than that and we'da been busted). So No, we're fine. Cop approaches car and asks to search it. I say, sure, anything you need. Would you like some help opening things? He said no.

She and I waited on side of road while Soldier boy couldn't figure how to open trunk LOL... I had to open it for him.

He had pulled me over for a busted license plate light, which I thanked him for. He said most of the people back here at this time would be dealing pot/coke. I said, we're out to watch stars, and talk. Nothing illegal in my car!. Once I found out, I fixed light.

The cops I've run into in my life have been helpful and nice, and professional. Even the ones who gave me speeding tickets. I'm not angry, they're doing their job. I hear from people all over who've had bad runins with cops. I don't get it - I've always had good times.

Cutenoob

[iradney]

Try the police force in South Africa sometime. Under paid, under staffed, over worked and getting shot at every single day. They either go corrupt, or join private security forces for better pay, or get so stressed out they have a breakdown and shoot themselves and their family.
We are (IIRC) in the top five for countries with the highest violent crime rate - I can't blame the police sometimes...it's like trying to empty the ocean with a spoon.

[crazylegs]

I have never understood why pulling over every single Yuppie with a brake light out was a higher priority to the police than patrolling bad neighborhoods and doing drug busts.

Proof.

I can see your brake light is out.

I cannot see who has drugs in their house, yes I could kick the door down on every house in a bad neighbourhood but that would neither be Proportionate, Lawful, Accountable nor Nessecary.

It is only with intelligence that we get the information to gain a warrant to then go and break doors down.

There are people who do this (at least in the UK) however they are a seperate Dept. than the usual response officers, hence why you don't see it happen.

In addition (as has been explained already) those who drive with lights out, no insurance (we can check before we pull you over) or MOT are the types of people who also disregard other laws so the vehicle is more often than not worth a tug.

[Slytovhand]

But... in saying all of this - both the good and the bad - know your rights!!!

I know that where I am, I have a stack of them if I'm pulled over - so, it'd be officer's name, number, rank, station they're based at. If s/he wants to get inside my car, they have to have probable cause, and has to tell me if I ask for it. If it's about finding out if my car is ok or not, they don't have the right to look in the boot (except for probable cause).

And if they're non-uniform - let's see the ID, mate!!

(of course - these points could be fairly irrelevant in various places... like South Africa )

[blas87]

Hey now. I own the most unreliable piece of crap car there is. I am not a drug dealer nor a criminal because my tail light is out or because my windshield is cracked. But thanks for that. Good to know everyone on the road and the police are all going to assume I'm holding because my car doesn't pass 100% inspection. Sure makes me feel great to know that no other car on the road being driven by the average Joe has any problems whatsoever. Good to know I'm the only person in the world who has ignored small problems with their vehicles because they cannot afford to fix it at the moment.

Yes, I do have better things to do than fix it. I can either buy a casing from the junkyard, or I can eat supper tonight and keep gas in my car. OR I can just keep duct taping the tail light in and hope and pray it keeps. I hope and pray NONE of you ever end up in a situation where every little thing that can go wrong with your car does, and you DO end up saying "Fuck it, I'll fix it when I get my bonus check" or "I'll fix that when I'm done paying this off".

I never said all cops are assholes because they've pulled me over. I was just in an accident last Tuesday morning. I got a ticket. I deserved it. I rear ended someone. I don't HATE the cops. I was treated fairly, and I was ALSO well informed of my rights in case the other guy were to try insurance fraud and try to get more out of my insurance company than what damage I actually caused. Cool it, alright?