Obama Supports Gay Marriage Rights

[Hyena Dandy]

I don't think it's an obviuos choice, but I do think it's one that had a political calculation behind it. First South Carolina declaring itself against, and then Joe Biden declaring himself for... It may not be politically expedient to be for gay marriage, but it would be even less expedient to continue his "My feelings are complicated" charade.

What Obama's biggest problem at the moment is a lack of enthusiasm amongst his base. It's not that they're likely to vote for Romney as much as they're not likely to vote at all. The young people who loved him in '08 are becoming disillusioned in '12.

I'm of two minds on calling this 'courageous.' On the one hand, I do think it's good that he declared his stance. He could easily have said "No, I don't believe in gay marriage" and then changed his mind after the election. I do not, however, think that this is a situation where he just said this because it was the right thing to do and he really wanted America to know this. I don't imagine he woke up that morning and said "Today I tell them I want equality, I can't stand people not knowing." Or even "South Carolina just voted against it. I need to let the gays in the country know someone cares for them."

I suppose it's courageous that he said it. I just don't want to present that this was a sweeping political gesture. It was out of necessity that he said it now. It wasn't courageous that he said it now. That he didn't lie, however, was courageous.

Just to be clear, I don't think that Andara's suggesting that someone's melanin content or ancestry are causing them to be bigoted. It's more likely that it is a black cultural issue, than a racial issue.

Well, yeah, I assumed that was clear. It doesn't mean that black people are any more or less human than, say, Christians are. Or that as a gay guy I should declare all black people my enemy because all black people hate me. All it means is that members of that subculture are likely to be biased. Why this is I don't know, but it's silly to claim that it's not true.

Edit: It's like saying that Hip-hop music is more commonly listened to among African-Americans than among whites. That doesn't mean that African-Americans have a genetic predisposition towards it.

[Seifer]

Just to be clear, I don't think that Andara's suggesting that someone's melanin content or ancestry are causing them to be bigoted. It's more likely that it is a black cultural issue, than a racial issue.

Speaking of black culture, I wonder if their conservative views on gay marriage has anything to do with the fact that being gay in the black community is rough. Look at all the stereotypes held within the culture - black men are supposed to like big-bootied women and act like "gangsters." I bet it's hard to fit the "gangsta" profile if you're attracted to the same sex.

[Andara Bledin]

I'm curious to know why so many people think the "it's complicated" answer is a charade?

It's a complex question and for some people, it's really difficult to boil it down to the human rights issue it really is.

I actually know, personally, a number of people who are on the fence, not really understanding how they feel on the issue. Why is it so hard to believe that Obama is human and hadn't yet sorted how he felt about it in his own head?

The explanation of why his stance finally shifted to pro-equality is, I think, genuine. With the current level of social acceptance, his daughters will almost assuredly have friends who have 2 moms or 2 dads, and while that's not typical, at this stage it shouldn't be seen as particularly remarkable, either.

As for the timing of the announcement, his hand was pretty much forced by Biden's comments on the matter. When he actually, consciously, realized his feelings on the matter is much less clear-cut.

^-.-^

[daleduke17]

Kind of funny how Obama came out with his support one day after North Carolina voted for Proposition 1 (or whatever number it was). This was a political stunt this time around. It was no more him saying "HI GUYS! Look at me, I'm here and for the queers, get used to it!"

Obama can't run on the "I'm black" card this time. So, he has picked the current "cool" issue to be for. If the USA was more against gay marriage, he would be against it.

[Hyena Dandy]

I'm curious to know why so many people think the "it's complicated" answer is a charade?

I'm fairly sure he's been pro-gay marriage for quite a while. Declining to defend the Defense of Marriage Act in courts is what convinced me he's pro-Gay marriage. I think he genuinely felt it was complicated in '08, but he'd decided already and was planning on discussing it AFTER the election. Until North Carolina and Biden forced his hand.

[Nekojin]

Kind of funny how Obama came out with his support one day after North Carolina voted for Proposition 1 (or whatever number it was). This was a political stunt this time around. It was no more him saying "HI GUYS! Look at me, I'm here and for the queers, get used to it!"

Obama can't run on the "I'm black" card this time. So, he has picked the current "cool" issue to be for. If the USA was more against gay marriage, he would be against it.

I don't see how you come to this conclusion. Gay marriage is still a HOTLY contested topic, and coming out in support of it could very well cost Obama the re-election.

Don't believe me? Consider this: Observe California. Traditionally one of the most liberal of states, and considered a lock for Democrats for as long as I've been alive. And yet, California passed Proposition 8, a State Constitutional Amendment that outlawed gay marriage, by a 52-48 margin. California has 55 Electoral votes, and the current predictions of the 2012 Presidential Election show Obama winning by a narrower margin than that.

If Obama was solely doing what was politically convenient or politically advantageous, he would have done everything in his power to prevent gay marriage from being a wedge issue in the upcoming election.

[Hyena Dandy]

If Obama was solely doing what was politically convenient or politically advantageous, he would have done everything in his power to prevent gay marriage from being a wedge issue in the upcoming election.

It's not solely what's convenient/advantageous. I think he's been in favor of gay marriage for a while. He chose now because, between South Carolina and Biden, he could no longer not answer.

[Nekojin]

It's not solely what's convenient/advantageous. I think he's been in favor of gay marriage for a while. He chose now because, between South Carolina and Biden, he could no longer not answer.

I agree. Not taking a stance was politically convenient. But Biden, at least, forced his hand.

[HYHYBT]

I'm curious to know why so many people think the "it's complicated" answer is a charade?

The "'it's complicated' answer" is true for many people. But this particular person went on record in the 90's as being FOR gay marriage, and since then, in every way other than saying the words, has acted consistently with that. In particular, he was against Proposition 8 *even though all the tangible rights are available in California without marriage.*

[Andara Bledin]

And.... You knew it was coming.

Gay Republicans Offended by Obama's Declaration - blog from someone who's Proud to Be a Filthy Liberal Scum

So, they're willing to ignore the fact that their party is the one footing all these bills and that if it weren't for the Republicans, there wouldn't have even been a vote in NC or any of the other nearly-30 states that have had them.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

Why are they offended that Obama says he supports gay marriage, rather than being offended that their own candidates (retired doesn't count) don't?

As for the timing... if the North Carolina vote had been close, they might have a point that he could have done some good making the announcement a few days earlier. But there's no way it would have brought 61-39 down to even. And as for it making people feel worse... admittedly, I don't live in NC, but the vote there still hurt and I for one felt a lot *better* getting some good news on the same issue so quickly.

[Mytical]

I'd say it is not political BS, but even if it is..so what? I mean really..think about it. Most politicians do what is politically convenient, they flip flop so often that you'd think their parents were sandals or something. Myself..I think the social climate (not political) has changed so much that it is a smart move either way. As long as his voting on the issues match up, it is all good. Of course..right now I am posting recovering from surgery and have a little morphine in me..so take what you will from that.

[PepperElf]

Isn't that what this is? If he doesn't actually put any real effort forth in creating equality, clearly he doesn't support it that much. Honestly, it just feels like he's trying to get support from just yet one more group.

I think you hit it right on the head.

His sudden "support" is ONLY because it's an Election Year.


And in all honesty his support is meaningless anyway. Regardless of personal opinions on gay marriage, marriage licenses fall under the realm of STATE RIGHTS.


So Obama can lip-service this all he wants because he knows... he doesn't actually have to do anything since it's not the federal government's jurisdiction in the first place.

[mikoyan29]

I think you hit it right on the head.

His sudden "support" is ONLY because it's an Election Year.


And in all honesty his support is meaningless anyway. Regardless of personal opinions on gay marriage, marriage licenses fall under the realm of STATE RIGHTS.


So Obama can lip-service this all he wants because he knows... he doesn't actually have to do anything since it's not the federal government's jurisdiction in the first place.

But there is that full faith and credit thing somewhere. For instance, my Michigan driver's license is good anywhere else in the country. Same with my marriage license (if I had one) unless I were married to another dude.

[PepperElf]

But there is that full faith and credit thing somewhere. For instance, my Michigan driver's license is good anywhere else in the country. Same with my marriage license (if I had one) unless I were married to another dude.

Actually you're wrong. The other states DON'T have to accept your license. The fact that they do does not imply any federal law, but that the state in question doesn't care to make an issue out of it.


They can, however. My BF had his DL confiscated by a police officer at a stop, even though he was the passenger. Texas laws do not require active duty military to renew the license. But the cop said "This state doesn't acknowledge that" and forced him to give up the license.


And... well there's Concealed Carry permits too. Those aren't acknowledged in all states either.



But beyond that, Obama is full of shit on this. Remember his promise to refuse to do business with any country that didn't have gay rights? What ever became of that one?

Nothing. It was lip-service. We still do business with China and the Middle East.


This is nothing new. Obama promises a lot of stuff that he doesn't deliver. Last year he promised the local military base some extra funding for repairs from bad storm damage. The buildings still haven't been fixed, and it's been almost a year.


It's easy to make pretty promises when you have no intention - or ability - to actually make them come true.