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  • Gay parents?

    If I may pick your gray matter for a bit?

    I have heard on a number of occasions, that gays should never raise children. And by gays, I mean a lesbian couple, bisexual couple or a gay couple. My question is, why not?

    They do not teach homosexual behaviour, at least not the vast majority of them. So the argument that they will "breed more gays" flies out the window.

    I have heard the argument that they will raise the children to be disruptive, strange or unnatural (sorry, language barrier; čudni). But other than the statistical summary that they do indeed seek out slightly less traditional roles, roles more suited to them than society expects, I cannot find any data stating that they are a problem. Which, in my mind, is a good thing. I wish we had more female soldiers, and more male nurses.

    However, the main point is, how would you enforce this? Even if gay marriage wasn't as accepted as it is today (and there is plenty of room for improvement), how would you enforce it? Say you have a (closeted bisexual) mother, whose husband died in a warzone. So she has to raise a child by herself. Would you object to this? And what if the same mother starts hanging out with a female friend. No kissing, no hugging, just friends. And that friend spends a LOT of time at the house. Is this a problem? What if that same friend and the mother start hugging? No kissing, but definate affection can be seen. Would this be a problem? What if we substitute the mother for a father?
    And what happens if there is a triangle, where one member is bisexual? Say the mother is bisexual, and the couple has one of her VERY good friends live with them. All three of them raise the child(ren) to the best of their abilities. Would this be a problem? If yes, what about a couple where a sibling of one of the parents lives with them (the mothers sister). Or just a good friend, no sexual context whatsoever? Of course this is rare, but the question remains.
    If there is no objection to any of this, then why can gays not adopt children? They would probably make up for a significant amount of adopting parents, considering the trouble to create a child themselves.

    Where is the limit, the border?

    I don't think there should be a problem. The father and mother roles are called roles for a reason. A man is just as capable of being loving, tender, nurturing as a woman is (though slightly less likely, I imagine). And a woman is just as capable of being gruff, strict or inspirational as a man is. Plus to that, I believe that society raises children almost as much as parents do. So what is the problem of having that society closer to home, by actually being in the home (in the case of a triangle)?

    In essence, what is the problem with gays, gay unions and most importantly, them raising children? And why are gays, as compared to lesbians, in such a bad light?

  • #2
    This whole gay thing has gotten out of hand. Classic example of brainwashing. I feel exceptionally brilliant for figuring it out.

    I grew up thinking gays were devious, nasty little things. It's how I was raised. Once I hit adulthood and got out of the house and was able to think for myself, I realized my only opinion was based on what my mom and dad had been telling me.

    Then I got to thinking they didn't even really understand it. My parents are just parroting what their parents have been saying. And so on. I don't think anyone really knows why, it's just a "that's the way it is" kinda thing. No one questions it because it's deeply engrained.

    Not even the ones who fanatically believe it can explain it. They argue "This book says so, and EVERYTHING IN THIS BOOK IS TRUE."

    Until..."Oh, except that. And that. Honestly, I just pick the things out of this book I like and pretend the rest is crap."

    Yeah, because that makes all kinds of sense.

    We need to stop this shit. Sex stays in the bedroom and we shouldn't care. The only people who should care are your close friends who want details.

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    • #3
      Thing is, its not just the religious fanatics that are against it. And thats why Im asking. Since the non-fanatical ones shouldn't be brainwashed (that much).

      Comment


      • #4
        Before we start, I found this the other day and thought I should share it:

        https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...16975589_n.jpg


        The most common arguments I have heard from people arguing against gay families are:

        -It's teaching children that non-traditional families are "normal".
        -Kids need both a male and female role model in their lives.
        -IVF is evil! (commonly used to refer to single parents trying to access IVF)
        -Gay parents are child molesters (or some variant of)

        Out of all of those, something that my English tutor said the other day struck a chord with me, because while her argument was in regards to the NAPLAN tests, it can also apply here. The general gist of it was "people get too scared about the complex."
        Because gay parents tend to fall outside of their "perfect simple world", it's throwing them for a loop. Hence the first statement (the non-traditional families comment). If they're having to teach children about non-traditional families, then that's supposedly too complex for them and they should only be taught "Family has mother. father. child."

        The role model argument: We are not living in a Middle Eastern society where being taught by the opposite sex is forbidden. Kids will have PLENTY of chances to find opposite sex role models. If that's still an issue, there are clubs and societies out there where they can have a role model of the opposite sex: Big Brother/Big Sister, Scouts, sports teams, you name it. (I say Scouts because down here, Scouts are mixed-gender)

        I won't go into the IVF argument. Too many complexities there.

        As for the Gay parents are child molesters argument, there are plenty of happy families out there that have been torn apart because one member of the family has started abusing their child/niece/nephew. They are all mother/father/child families. Also on top of that, pedophilia is the sexual attraction towards CHILDREN. Usually the gender of said child is irrelevant. Homosexuality is the attraction towards ADULTS of the same sex.

        In short, people are idiots.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by kamn View Post
          Thing is, its not just the religious fanatics that are against it. And thats why Im asking. Since the non-fanatical ones shouldn't be brainwashed (that much).
          True. I think it's more of a cultural thing (even if the religious nuts are most outspoken about it).

          It's funny, in American society, sex is considered a huge taboo and there are very strict guidelines about what can't be shown on TV. But when it comes to violence, bring on the bloodshed! That kind of double standard explains a lot of the reasoning behind people's opposition o gays. None of it is based on reason and more people's discomfort with it.

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          • #6
            Even the non-religious people are brainwashed.

            You're told from a very young age that there are certain truths in life. The sky is blue, God knows what best for you, gays are evil and a penny saved in a penny earned.

            You don't question these things, it's just how it is. And people just grow up with the inherant belief that it's wrong and can't see any other way, and their brains will go to extreme lengths to try and convince them it's the right way to do things.

            It takes MASSIVE amounts of intelligence and wisdom to be able to overcome that. Most people are not so equipped to deal with it.

            Comment


            • #7
              The biggest argument against the typical husband-and-wife families is an appeal to tradition, which is a common debate fallacy taken up by those who either fear change or who want to direct away from their own bigotry.

              ^-.-^
              Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

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              • #8
                Originally posted by fireheart17 View Post
                Before we start, I found this the other day and thought I should share it:

                https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...16975589_n.jpg


                The most common arguments I have heard from people arguing against gay families are:

                -It's teaching children that non-traditional families are "normal".
                -Kids need both a male and female role model in their lives.
                -IVF is evil! (commonly used to refer to single parents trying to access IVF)
                -Gay parents are child molesters (or some variant of)
                For some time I have been struggling to understand the context of religious homophobia. As a Christian, I find it one of the most troubling things about my faith.

                As to the point I have bolded above, it seems to me the notion is flawed because, under that logic an alcoholic father and an emotionally detached mother is a BETTER parental situation for a child than two fathers or mothers that work hard to provide a loving home.

                I don't see how that's plausible, Biblically or otherwise.

                Then again, I know Christian married couples that aren't doing well at all and would have already divorced, but because divorce is Biblically frowned upon, they've committed themselves to the marriage for the long haul, no matter how distant they become.

                Again, I don't think that's necessarily in line with Biblical teachings, but I'm going a bit off topic there.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oh hey lookit here, someone else who's worried that the role of men is going to be undermined by lesbians accessing IVF:

                  http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226361570296

                  (If you check back in about 12 hours, I can guarantee that there will be some comments)

                  ETA: In regards to CrazedClerk, don't worry, I have no issue with gay parents I was just pointing out the common arguments from the opposing point of view. And I see where you're going with it too.
                  Last edited by fireheart17; 05-20-2012, 10:16 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by fireheart17 View Post
                    Oh hey lookit here, someone else who's worried that the role of men is going to be undermined by lesbians accessing IVF:

                    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226361570296

                    (If you check back in about 12 hours, I can guarantee that there will be some comments)

                    ETA: In regards to CrazedClerk, don't worry, I have no issue with gay parents I was just pointing out the common arguments from the opposing point of view. And I see where you're going with it too.
                    Oh I didn't think for a second you had an issue with it, I was just commenting on the issues with that particular oft stated argument as to why Gay parents are bad for children to have.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think this one sums it up well

                      I am a sexy shoeless god of war!
                      Minus the sexy and I'm wearing shoes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think the frowning upon gay parents contributes to the difficulties of gay youth. I am 31 and still uncomfortable with my sexuality because I am a suburban raised guy who doesn't have a lot of suburban gay couples to look at. Usually they are upper middle class couples without kids or single guys still looking or other variations of stereotype.

                        Makes it harder to see yourself in a "normal" relationship if you have only seen the kind that sexually you don't want.
                        Jack Faire
                        Friend
                        Father
                        Smartass

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm surprised more people aren't offended at one of the arguments on a sexist basis. The idea that you need a male role model and a female role model seems to me to be a statement that men do and must have one role and women do and must have a vastly different one. Which is absolutely true only in an area parents do not normally model for their children: the actual physical production of offspring.
                          "My in-laws are country people and at night you can hear their distinctive howl."

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