I'm Too Fat To Be Executed!!!

[AFPheonix]

Repaying equal value for damage done doesn't seem "uncivilized" or "unreasonable" to me. In the case of a murder, it might be twenty years of incarceration that the state has deemed equal value.

And "mad dog" is a dehumanizing term, because no one likes being called kin to someone who can rape and kill time and time again. Their mentality is closer to a feral animal than to a civilized person.

Many of your arguments seem to say that just the fact of being human affords murderers some protection from full punishment; that there is some intrinsic value in all humans that is worth protecting even at the expense of the state and, in the case of repeat offenders, at the expense of their future victims. While I agree that all human life is precious, I don't understand why we should bother shielding criminals from the consequences of their own actions. If someone chooses to become a threat to people around him, then he has no right to demand that these same citizens of the state not protect themselves from him.

The problem with this line of thinking is that it doesn't address the reason WHY the person decided to make the choice to murder and rape. Until we start actually learning why these people do that and apply that knowledge in the form of prevention across society, we will continue to have problems.
Until we can utilize some of our own humanity to figure out what happened to these people, nothing will ever change.

[AFPheonix]

I see a difference between saying what you don't like about your country, and just saying your country sucks so badly that you wished you could move. I bitch about the problems of America all the time, but I'm not going to leave America. I'd never want to do that. All I was saying was if Flyndaran desires to leave America so badly...go ahead.

If you can quote where in this thread he said that this country sucks so badly he'd like to move, be my guest. As far as I can see, he's simply disagreeing with you, as am I.

[Greenday]

For the record, I am american and am truly disgusted with the evils this nation has committed. The fact that kidnapping and torture of children is now condoned has destroyed any good feelings I may have had for this country.
I truly wish I were rich enough to move somewhere civilized.

There you go.

[Sylvia727]

Until we start actually learning why these people do that and apply that knowledge in the form of prevention across society, we will continue to have problems.

I agree. But until then, while we work on the problem, what do we do with the people who are already damaged/evil? I only favor the death penalty for those who are, to the best of current knowlege, incurable.

[AFPheonix]

There you go.

Ah, I missed that. In that case, my apologies, but I still say that we cannot be blind to the many awful things that have been done in our names.

I agree. But until then, while we work on the problem, what do we do with the people who are already damaged/evil? I only favor the death penalty for those who are, to the best of current knowlege, incurable.

We keep them away from the rest of society for the safety of the people. I honestly don't think killing is right, and that killing in response to killing is equally wrong, especially when done by authority figures. It really does nothing for anyone.
It doesn't help the prisoner, as often the methods we come up with to execute are still painful. It doesn't help the victim, they're already dead. It doesn't ultimately help the victim's family and friends, although they may like the idea of revenge, but revenge has no place in a civil society. It doesn't help the rest of the populace, it brings us down to the same level as the murderer in the first place.
The money we spend on death sentences could be better spent on better mental health programs, parenting classes, and targeting troubled youth in school when they can still be influenced.
Furthermore, the death penalty is in the hands of other humans, who are flawed by definition. I don't think we'll ever get to a point where we can say with certainty that we put the "right" person to death. There will always be someone who was executed who was innocent, simply because there will always be bias and uncertainty in our justice system. It's not worth it to me.

[Greenday]

Ah, I missed that. In that case, my apologies, but I still say that we cannot be blind to the many awful things that have been done in our names.

Don't worry about it. I agree. There's no doubt about it, we need to work on our problems. America may be pretty developed, but it still has a long way to go.

[Boozy]

I don't have a problem with someone bitching about their country even if they DO want to leave. Although this is certainly not the case in the US, many countries get to such an awful state that any citizen with the means to do so will flee. I don't think that means they lose the right to criticize what is happening in their homeland.

Cuban nationals living in Florida are a good example of people who love their country, want desperately to go back, but cannot live under the conditions there. They are also a significant force for change, as they influence US policy towards Cuba.

Also, I've been known to criticize the US and I've never lived there. A bad policy is a bad policy, and if I feel like the Bush administration (or those preceding it) is harming people, I will speak up. Americans are my friends and neighbours, and citizens of the world. If they hear what I'm saying and choose to ignore it, fine. But like with any good friend, I will speak my mind if I see them hurting themselves or getting hurt.

[DesignFox]

[QUOTE=Flyndaran;11725]"The problem", and "mad dog" are dehumanizing terms. QUOTE]

Yea. Well, someone who kills people for fun isn't human to my mind. They are an animal and they deserve to be treated as such.

Ask the victims of escaped convicts how they feel about a proven repeat rapist being left alive to get back out on the streets. The problem could have been prevented, but ooooh noooo we gotta let em live just because they are a hairless ape like the rest of us.

No. Sorry. I don't agree with that logic. Some people are broken beyond repair. If they present a serious, violent threat to others, put them out of everyone's misery.

If anything, death must be more merciful than living within a tortured, murderous mind. My thoughts aren't as cold-hearted and one sided as some of you anti-death penalty people think.

I don't see it as revenge. I see it as a cure for an unfortunate evil.

I wish we didn't even NEED a justice system. However, not everyone can play nice with the other kids...since we're all flawed, though, the system will be too. I wish we could minimize those flaws...

BUT- That is why I would only put forth the death penalty in extreme cases. Like the case of the Phoenix Strangler. Google that one if you want to have nightmares. THOSE are the sorts of people I'm primarily talking about.

This fat asshole we're all talking about just got caught after his 2nd victim rather than after his 12th. good riddance.

[Arcade Man D]

Yea. Well, someone who kills people for fun isn't human to my mind. They are an animal and they deserve to be treated as such.

Now that's very offensive to animal lovers. Animals don't kill for fun. They kill to eat and defend their homes. That's pretty much it.

[DesignFox]

Now that's very offensive to animal lovers. Animals don't kill for fun. They kill to eat and defend their homes. That's pretty much it.

Yea, that was a little harsh. I love animals, too, and I wish there were solutions that didn't involved having to put them down, either.

But, I have to disagree with your statement because some animals DO kill for fun. Domesticated cats come to mind... I've also seen video of Orca whales gleefully using seals as volleyballs. Animals aren't all pure innocence. Humans, however, should know better. We have a responsibility to one another and to our fellow creatures.

If a person repeatedly treats is fellow man very violently and cruelly, repeatedly rapes and murders, tortures etc...he needs to be removed.

Again, Im not talking about one time offenders. I'm not talking about people who got involved in a crime of passion...or a spur of the moment... or who just flat out shot somebody. THEY need to be punished, sure. But not have their lives taken away. That is disprorportionate to the crime committed. Because people who do those sorts of things may have a chance to make themselves right again. They can repay their debt to society.

They don't act like rabid dogs who know no better and/or can't be happy unless they are causing someone else pain. They don't wake up in the morning and plot and plan and track down their next victim..they don't get obsessed with killing people. Serial killers take GLEE in killing people. They usually get caught because they are in such a crazed state that they get careless as they pick off more and more victims in shorter periods of time. I think those kinds of people need to be dealt with...permanently.

I think I'm beating a dead horse, now. So, I will withdraw unless someone brings up a different point.

[Lace Neil Singer]

If you want a good example, google Pedro Lopez. This guy is out there, somewhere; he was released after serving his sentence... and he murdered and raped over 100 young girls. That's a scary thought, that someone that evil was released back into society.

[Rubyred]

The fact that kidnapping and torture of children is now condoned has destroyed any good feelings I may have had for this country.
I truly wish I were rich enough to move somewhere civilized.

Please please please give me ONE example of a situation where kidnapping and torure of a child was condoned.


I really don't think theres any need to shoot this guy or be-head him. Why can't they just put him on a diet for a year and give him the lethal injection when he's down to a healthy weight? He's been in jail since 1986....one more years not going to make that big a difference.

[DesignFox]

Why can't they just put him on a diet for a year and give him the lethal injection when he's down to a healthy weight? He's been in jail since 1986....one more years not going to make that big a difference.

Now there's an idea. By the end of the year diet, this guy should be begging for his injection. *snerk*

I'm really only a jerk to those who deserve it, honest...

[AdminAssistant]

But what do we do with really psycho serial killers - the Jeffrey Dahmer's and BTK's of the world? The ones who cook/eat their victims, who haved killed/raped dozens of people, who wear the skins of their victims and keep the heads as prizes? They can't be rehabilitated and released. I personally don't want my tax money spent keeping these wastes of humanity alive. Maybe that makes me heartless - but I don't care.

This guy has been tried and found guilty and his punishment has been assigned to him. Don't like it? Then maybe he should've kept it in his pants and not killed people. Sucks to be him. The American legal system has its problems*, sure, but that's part of the package deal of being an American.

*Like the fact that the two Westside shooters were released and given new identities when they turned 18. One was rather quickly rearrested for possesion of drugs and a firearm. I don't care how young you are, if you murder 5 people you don't get released after a few years.

[IDrinkaRum]

Update

Richard Cooey says "Shoot me"

He also denies that he deliberately gained weight so he wouldn't be executed.